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2 Attachment(s)
11.25 Payroll differs on expense dialog and finance page [Fixed 12.11]
No Problem with Money Here
Why does it do this
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Re: 10.29 Payroll Budget incorrect
When you altered the league settings the Blue Jays ended up getting too much money screwing up their payroll number. At least that what I always figured happened in that situation.
Fan base A+, loyalty +20%, 90,000 seat stadium in a 90,000,000 populated urban area, win the world series the year before, and in first place currently?
Or something outrageous like that
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Re: 10.29 Payroll Budget incorrect
That's what I figured as well. Still, there should probably be some sort of basic check to ensure that the payroll budget doesn't turn into a negative number. It doesn't really affect anything if it does, but still...
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Re: Check This Payroll Budget Out
Time to start reanimating hall of famers...
I mean you have the money!
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Re: 10.29 Payroll Budget incorrect
How bout the payroll budget in the first shot. $1.4 BILLION. Man, even Steinbrenner's green with envy. :)
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Re: 10.29 Payroll Budget incorrect
Yup, there's 'no problem' with $1.4 Billion Salary Budget -- C'mon...that's rediculous especially since it's 2002. In 2050 perhaps with inflation.
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Re: 10.29 Payroll Budget incorrect
Maybe it's in Australian dollars there, Dave? :D
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11.25 Payroll does not always add up
Maybe I've missed something in my years of playing BM but I've always found it difficult and annoying trying to figure expenses. The biggest part of the problem is that payroll and expenses doesn't seem to be listed separately.
I'd like to be able to see updated payroll expense and expenses ?expense? listed separately.
At the end of the year (or any other point in the year) on the finances screen expenses are listed. But that is payroll+expenses. The thing is with the changes in payroll (trades, promotions, demotions, releases, signings) and adjustments made to the other expenses it's hard to easily see where the money is going.
Related questions:
How is payroll paid? Is it yearly salary/172 (service time days in a year) or something else?
How are expenses paid? If I have my scouting set at $5,000,000 how is that paid out over a day?
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Re: Separate Payroll Expenses from Total Expenses
Everything (payroll and expenses) is payed out each time you play a regular season game. So, basically you take whatever you have for expenses and the total payroll for your team and divide each or all of it by 162 (or however many games a season there are) and that's your daily expense.
As to the main topic... that's basically what payroll budget is for. Payroll budget is projected revenue - non payroll expenses. If you look at the finance page, there's also a column available for (non payroll) expenses, both to date (actual) and projected.
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3 Attachment(s)
Re: Separate Payroll Expenses from Total Expenses
Entirely possible that I'm missing something but I don't see what you are talking about.
Revenue is total money taken in through tickets, concessions, tv.
Expenses is the total money paid out so far to farm, scouting, medical and payroll.
Profit is Revenue-Expense
Team Payroll is the sum of all the player salaries on the roster.
Farm expense (and the other expenses) is the current level of expense
as noted by the two different levels.
Now, on the expenses screen it does a better job showing the prorated amounts, but it still doesn't separate out payroll.
In the last shot there's a descrepency between Player Salaries and Team Payroll. Plus, neither of those numbers represents how much I spent on paying players this season.
3 Options
1) I'm confused as ****
2) Something is wrong here
3) The displays are in no way logical
Now I know I haven't presented this very logically or orderly. I'll try and compose myself, but in the mean time if anyone else wants to give it a whirl, feel free
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Re: Separate Payroll Expenses from Total Expenses
Quote:
In the last shot there's a descrepency between Player Salaries and Team Payroll.
That's from rounding. The numbers shown on the Expenses screen are always more correct.
Quote:
Entirely possible that I'm missing something but I don't see what you are talking about.
Me too! lol
I'm failing my Phonetics lesions or something, cause... I don't get it.
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Re: Separate Payroll Expenses from Total Expenses
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ohms_law
Me too! lol
I'm failing my Phonetics lesions or something, cause... I don't get it.
Is it painful? It sounds like it is.
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Re: Separate Payroll Expenses from Total Expenses
heh
stupid FF spell checker...
:rolleyes:
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Separate Payroll Expenses from Total Expenses
I meant to post THIS pic regarding this
Quote:
In the last shot there's a descrepency between Player Salaries and Team Payroll. Plus, neither of those numbers represents how much I spent on paying players this season
.
If this is a rounding error. It's really bad.
This shot is from Oct 31 2008. End of the season.
The 23 million is, for sure, the sum of all my players salaries for the previous year. Verified in excel.
I don't have a clue what 17 million is supposed to be.
I thought it was next season's salaries but it doesn't work out that way. Unless that's the rounding error. If I release every player who is up for renewal my payroll comes to 18.178 million. Still a long way from 17 million.
Here's my question. Based on this shot can I (you) tell what was spent on payroll, and other budgeted expenses for 2008?
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Re: Separate Payroll Expenses from Total Expenses
Quote:
I thought it was next season's salaries but it doesn't work out that way. Unless that's the rounding error. If I release every player who is up for renewal my payroll comes to 18.178 million. Still a long way from 17 million.
Did you take out the arbitration eligable players' salaries as well?
Quote:
Here's my question. Based on this shot can I (you) tell what was spent on payroll, and other budgeted expenses for 2008?
Team Payroll: $21.8M
It shows your current payroll in the sidebar as well. Team Payroll: 23,011,146
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Re: Separate Payroll Expenses from Total Expenses
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ohms_law
Did you take out the arbitration eligable players' salaries as well?
Yes. I played to free agency and did not sign any player who was eligible for arbitration or who was a free agent.
Quote:
Team Payroll: $21.8M
:confused: Where did this number come from?
My opening day payroll was around $38 million. My pay roll at the end of the season was $23 million. I don't see how I could have paid $21.8 million. The amount should be between $38 and $23 million
Quote:
It shows your current payroll in the sidebar as well. Team Payroll: 23,011,146
Yes, as I've stated numerous times THAT is the sum of the players salaries.
So far as I can tell there is no way to tell how the money is being spent.
I would like to know, how much I spent each on player salaries, farm, medical, and scouting during the year. And I don't think those numbers are available.
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Re: Separate Payroll Expenses from Total Expenses
Quote:
I would like to know, how much I spent each on player salaries, farm, medical, and scouting during the year. And I don't think those numbers are available.
OK, that I understand... I don't really see why it's important, but I get it now at least.
You know how much your total expenses were, and you know how much you paid in payroll for the season. Subtract payroll from total expenses and you have the total non-payroll expense amount.
*shrug*
Anyway, it's after the regular season in the screenshot above (actually, it's the last day...) so the finances aren't going to update again until spring training starts. As I was saying earlier, expenses are figured for each game day of the regular season, so there are no new expenses until next season starts anyway.
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Re: Separate Payroll Expenses from Total Expenses
First, thanks for bearing with me and trying to help out...dealing with people is a vastly underrated skill
I could only figure out external to the game. I figured out in excel. Seems that should be a part of the game. It's Baseball Mogul. There is a finances screen yet nothing shows your biggest expense. Salaries.
Also, the 17 million payroll it shows. No idea what that number means. Its not this years payroll. It's not next years payroll. What is it?
The whole finances part of the game seems off to me. Always has.
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Re: Separate Payroll Expenses from Total Expenses
Well, yea... one thing that I've been after for a couple of years is a simple ledger. Itemized expenses and income. Like you said, it's Baseball Mogul, so I'm certainly not against anything to improve the financial aspects of the game!
:)
The finances are generally "off"/incorrect during the off season. It sucks, but it's literally always been that way. Not that that's an excuse, but it is a fact. Personally, I never really liked the game day expense and revenue system that Mogul implements, but it does have the advantage of simplicity. As I said, I'd love to have a more complete financial system in Mogul, but I wouldn't want to have to be a CPA in order to understand it.
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Re: Separate Payroll Expenses from Total Expenses
I just want to see Payroll Expense (how much did I spend in pay roll so far this year), Farm, Scouting, and Medical Expenses (ditto).
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5 Attachment(s)
11.19 Finances calculated inconsistently
I've mentioned this before, but I know more about what is going on now so I'll bring it back up.
The finances are not calculated correctly.
Beginning a season on April 1st and simming through the season without making ANY adjustments to expenses or payroll you end up with different figures from the beginning of the season to the end.
Trades were set at -100% so there were no trades
Injuries were set at -100% so players were not called up from the minors increasing their salaries.
Drafted players were released immediately after the draft so their salaries would not affect the final figures.
No players retired or were released.
All expenses were set to $0
You can clearly see that not all player salaries were paid. My player salaries for the season totaled $84,899,199. However, my expenses for the entire year were only $81,952,844. Almost $3 million less than what they should have been.
I think this is a pretty significant problem as the financial aspect is a big part of the game. It has always been quite frustrating to me that there was always an inaccuracy in the financial portion of the game.
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Re: Separate Payroll Expenses from Total Expenses
Ok. I think this is more anatomically correct in this thread
Here's what I did.
Started a new season
Reduced Farm System, Medical Staff and Scouting to 0 dollars
Reduced Injury Frequency and Trades to -100% so there would be no player movement.
Clicked the checkbox for each player in the minors so they wouldn't change levels and therefore their salaries.
Simmed until the amateur draft. Drafted. Then immediately released all the players I drafted so no salary would be added.
Simmed to the end of the regular season.
Simmed to the end of the world series.
Right off the bat you can see that there is a problem.
The salaries from the team summary, that were verified in an excel spreadsheet, and the expenses sheet do not match.
http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/r...eTest/BORS.jpg
*more to come in posts 2 and 3
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Re: Separate Payroll Expenses from Total Expenses
Ok. So after simming to the end of the regular season
I now have cash of $74,675,840. How do we get to this number?
It should be Revenue - Expenses (which should only be payroll) = Profit.
Profit + Beginning Cash = Cash at End of Year.
But it's not. Add the numbers. It doesn't work.
It doesn't work using what the payroll should be in excel. It doesn't work using what the expenses sheet uses for payroll.
IT DOES work using what the expenses sheet uses for 2008 expenses. Which is less that what I should have paid for payroll
$121,801,647 - 57,883,364 + 10,757,557 = 75,675,840
$2,797,807 is the difference between what payroll should have been and what BM thinks it is. I don't know the significance of that number
http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/r...eTest/EORS.jpg
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Re: Separate Payroll Expenses from Total Expenses
I thought that maybe something was weird because the season wasn't over yet. This team was in the playoffs so I simmed through the playoffs (and won the World Series).
Same thing. Ending cash still doesn't equal 2008 Revenue - 2008 Payroll Expenses + Beginning Cash.
It does equal 2008 Revenue - 2008 Expenses (which still are less than 2008 payroll) + Beginning Cash though.
Also, for whatever reason, it showed 2007 Revenue and Expenses as being equal to 2008 Rev and Exp.
http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/r...eTest/EOWS.jpg
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Separate Payroll Expenses from Total Expenses
I'm trying to upload the .xls I used to calculate this but the forum is being cranky incase anyone wants to see the calculations.
You don't need the sheet. The discrepancies are pretty obvious.
It appears to me that either
A) Revenue is not properly displayed or
B) Not all salaries are being properly subtracted
EDIT: Got it...zip first...duh
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Re: Separate Payroll Expenses from Total Expenses
OK... what's the problem?
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Re: Separate Payroll Expenses from Total Expenses
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ohms_law
OK... what's the problem?
EDIT:
THE PROBLEM IS THAT PAYROLL EXPENSE IS BEING MISSTATED
In the above example Payroll was $60.7 million but only 57.9 million was deducted as an expense.
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Re: Separate Payroll Expenses from Total Expenses
Aright, it looks like you're talking about post #15. When, exactly, did you take that screenshot? Was it on a game day, prior to playing that day's game? Was it during the playoffs, or during the regular season?
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Re: Separate Payroll Expenses from Total Expenses
Post #15 was taken after the final day of the season. You can see that Arizona has a record of 99 - 63 which is 162 games. ALL payroll should have been paid at that point
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Re: Separate Payroll Expenses from Total Expenses
You can also see in post 16, which was taken after the world series but before Free Agency that they expenses are still $57.8 million. Which is STILL less than the $60 million dollar payroll for the season.
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Re: Separate Payroll Expenses from Total Expenses
Right, it is. Part of the picture here is that all expenses are only deducted during the regular season. You pay nothing prior to or after the regular season, even if you're playing playoff games. You do gain revenue from playoff games... all of it, since you're not playing expenses at all, which does mess up the projections and what has been earned. I've noticed that as a problem myself, in the past.
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Re: Separate Payroll Expenses from Total Expenses
I don't 100% understand your post
The problem isn't with the revenue it's with the Payroll Expense.
Payroll Expense should be 60.7 million, should it not?
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Re: Separate Payroll Expenses from Total Expenses
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Re: Separate Payroll Expenses from Total Expenses
You see that on the expenses screen. But to the right of that, circled in red Team Payroll is 60.8 million. Also, if you add sum up the salaries of all the players as listed in the sortable stats (as I did in the uploaded excel sheet) it totals to 60.8 million.
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Re: Separate Payroll Expenses from Total Expenses
So, I guess my question is:
Why do you think $58.2 million is the payroll?
Right next to it it says "Team Payroll 60.8 million". And if I sum up each players' yearly salary it totals 60.8 million. That, logically, would seem to be the team payroll.
Also, at the end of the season, without making ANY additions or subtractions to the team in terms of players or any payroll changing, the actual payroll paid out was still only 57.8 million.
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Re: 11.25 Payroll differs on expense dialog and finance page
Hallelujah! Somebody recognized this as a bug. Which has the side effect of meaning that I have the ability to do simple math.
I'd also like to point out that not only does payroll differ on the expense dialogue and the finance page, but it also affects a few other things.
1st, cash. Since payroll expense is incorrectly deducted each game, profit and cash are both overstated each game.
2nd, possibly the AI. Since the AI doesn't consider cash only revenue and expense, if expenses are undercalculated it puts the AI at ANOTHER disadvantage. IF the AI uses the payroll number from the finances screen (which is the CORRECT payroll) then it isn't fully using it's resources as the difference just goes to excess cash.
I think this is a huge bug since it effects the ENTIRE financial aspect of the game. I'd also hope it was an 'easy fix' (but maybe a harder find) since it's probably just a math error or forgetting to include some salaries somewhere.
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Re: 11.25 Payroll differs on expense dialog and finance page
Yea... me!
:)
Anyway, there were two threads in here already. I simply merged the three threads (the two here and the one in Suggestions) to be this thread.
I don't think that there's anything really wrong, but I don't really have the time to look right now. My best guess is that what's in the Expenses page is correct. I think that what's displayed on the sidebar and on the finance page is suffering from a series of rounding errors. ...or, nothing is wrong. I'm still not positive if the minor league payroll numbers are supposed to be in both places or not.
I know absolutely positively that the AI is receiving the proper payroll figures, at least. I've done some profiling on the AI, so that I can at least speak about definitively.
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Re: 11.25 Payroll differs on expense dialog and finance page
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ohms_law
My best guess is that what's in the Expenses page is correct. I think that what's displayed on the sidebar and on the finance page is suffering from a series of rounding errors. ...or, nothing is wrong. I'm still not positive if the minor league payroll numbers are supposed to be in both places or not.
I know absolutely positively that the AI is receiving the proper payroll figures, at least. I've done some profiling on the AI, so that I can at least speak about definitively.
I respectfully disagree. I'll try to show it even more clearly.
This time I edited all my players' salaries to $1,000,000 and released everyone not on the major league roster. So, I had 25 players each making $1 million a year.
I eliminated injuries and trades and immediately released my draft picks so no salary entered, left, or otherwise varied on my roster.
That means I should pay $25 million in salary for one year, correct?
I didn't. I only paid $24,846,325.
I see two options
A) BM is not correctly paying out player salaries
B) There is something quite unintuitive about a $1,000,000 one year contract
The following screen shot is to show that 25 players were signed at $1,000,000 each and that that should result in a one year payroll expense of $25 million
http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/r...t/Payroll1.jpg
The second shot shows that the expenses dialogue projects me to pay just over $25 million despite the fact that it should be $25 million
http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/r...t/Payroll2.jpg
Showing that drafted players were immediately released and did not effect the payroll
http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/r...t/Payroll4.jpg
After 162 games were played. $25 million WAS NOT paid. Only $24,846,325.
http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/r...t/Payroll5.jpg
You can also see that it is not just a display error. I set my beginning cash to 0. Revenue of 108,048,781 - 25,000,000 is not equal to 83,202,456. The cash number comes from the incorrect (in my opinion) subtraction of the $24,806,325.
Again, I'm not trying to just keep beating on a dead horse. It's just this inconsistency in Mogul has bothered me ever since I first started playing. If the game is working correctly, as you keep saying, I'd like to know for my own piece of mind how 25 $1 million dollar salaries come out being $24.8 million, and if it's not working correctly...well, I guess it would be good if it was fixed.
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Re: 11.25 Payroll differs on expense dialog and finance page
Just finished another season and this is still driving me crazy.
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Re: 11.25 Payroll differs on expense dialog and finance page
So, nobody can explain (or try to explain) why $25 million divided by 162 games = $24.8 million?
