Well, tonight anyway.:D
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Well, tonight anyway.:D
What happened?
Manny Ramirez hit a two-run homer in the bottom of the first inning. Woooo.
BOTH (disregarding the Hall of Famer and All Knowing Joe Morgan :D) of Ned Colletti's pickups homered in tonights game.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Joe Morgan, what's up??? Didn't you catch that SECOND homer??? Or do you just watch hall of famers??? Come on, I know Casey Blake ain't no Joe Morgan, but he DID homer in tonight's game too. :p
Manny's tearing it up as a Dodger. Maybe Colletti IS a genius. Manny even ran hard to first on a foul ball. Manny being motivated...that's a scary thought.
Manny needs a new contract, he better be motivated.
He already burned up a lot of his credentials with his antics in Boston, I doubt if Manny being Manny will fly with Torre.
Manny is off to a hot start and I hope he is the difference maker that gets the Dodgers into the playoffs. But Ned Colletti had damn well better not drink any more Kool-Aid than he already has, throw good money after bad and end up signing Manny for 3-4 years @ $20+ million per year. Not unless he can clear a lot of other bad money off the books, and even then that money could be better spent elsewhere.
Manny may be motivated now, and that's great, but he won't be after he gets that contract. I see him as a rental, nothing more.
A lot of $ are coming off the booksQuote:
Originally Posted by beerchaser
DLowe, Kent, Nomar, Furcal that's $35 million. Who replaces those guys, that I dunno.
Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
But..... I also saw him really loaf on a drive to left center that ended up turning a routine double into a routine triple. Yeah, I saw him run out a foul ball, run out an infield hit :eek: (only to see Matt Kemp with his head up his a$$ again and once AGAIN get caught in a baserunning blunder). Mixed signals here, he seems to really be hustling on offense, defense not so much. But, that may be an improvement for Manny.:D
As to Colletti's genius, I can't help but think about $36M for a washed up Andruw Jones and I forget now how many godawful millions for.... wait, it's coming.... that perennial hall-of-fame calibur Juan Pierre. I even thought he spent way too much on Furcal. Furcal is an offensive force, but in the field I've seen WAY TOO many instances where he has NO CLUE where the ball he's currently throwing is going to end up. It could be right in the first baseman's mitt. It could be right in the second deck. The guys got a cannon without an aim. Offensively a great shortstop, but I just don't know about $13M a year (I think that's what he paid Furcal 3 years ago).
No, I agree with Beerchaser, if he signs Manny to a 3 year $20-25M+ deal its a mistake. Now if he could get a two year deal, that might work. It's usually about the third or fourth year that Manny's "antics" start to wear. Though to be honest, if he signs Manny to a 2-year deal, I'm betting Joe Torre suddenly does decide to retire.
To be fair, as I've been seriously rooting for the Dodgers over the past several seasons, I've been as hard as anyone on Colletti for NOT making moves in seasons where one or two pieces might've made a difference. This year he did, and I think the two moves he made are going to make a difference, especially if Penny comes back like Penny, I think these moves makes the Dodgers the favorites in the West now. They have a legitimate lineup to go along with their always good pitching. So, good moves Colletti. I just wonder why you waited until the next to last year of your contract to make them. :D
I defended this signing at the time, but with hindsight being 20/20, it looks crappy. However, Jones is still a good defensive center fielder, and despite a bad season last year, there were reasons to expect him to bounce back. That plus that this is a very short term commitment made it an okay signing, although, obviously, in hindsight, it sucked.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
Well, to be fair, I DIDN'T defend it at the beginning. It was clear LAST YEAR that Jones was freefalling (though I'll admit I didn't see a .160 something avg :eek:). The freefalling that began last year should've indicated he's not worth $18M a year. Maybe a lesser amount yes, but not $18M IMO.
I don't think that him dropping off a cliff for good was CLEAR, which is why I think the signing was okay.
The thing is, these types of comments ignore the fact that the team is attempting to acquire the player in question (any FA player) from the open market. IIRC, in Furcals case, there were several teams pursuing him. Would you have criticized the Dodgers for pulling out of the bidding for Furcal at a "reasonable" rate if he had ended up on the D-Backs, Padres, Rockies, or Giants?Quote:
I even thought he spent way too much on Furcal.
So, depending on how and by whom those guys are replaced, that money isn't really available for somebody like Manny. My guess is the Dodgers make a run at Sabathia in the offseason, go after Orlando Hudson or trade for Brian Roberts to play 2B, and end up resigning Furcal. LA is a different team with Furcal in the lineup; the problem is he isn't there enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
I somewhat agree. I don't think we need Sabathia at the crazy money he's gonna get. I also don't know if we need Manny at the money he'll want.
Kemp looks to be on fire, and hopefully this is a corner turning not just a hot streak.
I'd consider Furcal coming back...maybe two injured seasons will bring his demands down.
I miss LaRoche already
i don't know how you can call furcal a bad signing. the only problem with him is injuries, that lineup is so much better with him in it.
i didn't think Andruw Jones would do much either, but I defending the signing because I figured he wouldn't get any worse.....whoops.
Well, I realize Furcal has been a catalyst to their lineup, when he's been there. But, that has as much do do with it being a weak lineup as anything else (although this year he WAS special, until once again hurt).
However, coming into the signing, he was basically a .280ish hitter averaging 10 dingers and maybe 25 stolen bases, and also committing lots of errors. And for fans of OPS+, it was very much less than stellar (although how it compares to other SS I don't know because I really don't follow the OPS+ stat, I just saw his and noted it wasn't all that impressive at all).
I guess what I'm saying with Furcal is he was probably slightly above average offensively, with some real question marks defensively, and some character question marks as well as he was just about to or just finishing up a jail term. And when you add in this was THREE YEARS AGO (not today's dollars), that $13M per year does sound like a lot to me, yes. Sorry, maybe we're just gonna agree to disagree on that one.
But there have been others. I questioned the Andruw Jones deal AT THE START (though, again, I didn't even see THIS dropoff), but you saw a real, and long term (it was ALL season long last year, not just a couple of bad months), decline last year, and $18M is, well, I'd bet they could've gotten Torii Hunter for that or near that and coming off last year, and their ages, that it was a no brainer that Torii Hunter was the better option.
I dunno, it's been my opinion that he's too often tied too much money up in deals that were risky at best and dangerous at worst. Now, I realize (Ohms) that the market makes crazy things happen sometimes, but that's when the good GM's have to decide less is better than more in some cases and back off. I really believe they went too far with Furcal and Jones and Pierre. The fact that one of those three worked out (Furcal, and that even has the injury side effects), doesn't make it that much more impressive to me.
But, I did like his moves this year. I still think LaRoche is going to be a solid major league player, so it was a lot to give up for a couple of months, but I don't think it was too much given the state of the NL West and the quality of the Dodgers pitching. Because we all know with good or great pitching a team that just makes the playoffs can suddenly then pitch themselves to a title. I'm not saying that's gonna happen this year, but the possibiltiy of it made the Blake deal and the Manny deal good moves IMO.
To be honest, rather than Furcal and (I guess it'll be 15 or 18 per year this time), Cristian Guzman (a .300 this year and before in Minnesota) for half that would make more sense, and free up that money to help fill the 3B hole next year (DeWitt is not a slam dunk answer there IMO), and maybe an OFer. Yeah, I know they have like 8 of em, but if they have to rely on an outfield of Pierre-Kemp-Eithier next year they're not going anywhere. That's basically what they relied on this year and their offense was so pitiful even with the best ERA in the NL, they were under .500 before they got Manny and Blake.
EDIT: BTW, Jim Bowden must be a genius too. With all of his moves in the last few days of the trade deadline the Nats have now won THREE IN A ROW ! ! ! @#*#(*#^!_)!)!#&*(&# (Whew, that feels better. :D)
Last year was his only poor season, using OPS+. Average is 100, and shortstops, as a whole, are below average hitters. I don't know exactly what the average OPS+ for a shortstop is, but it is less than 100. His 2006 was a very good season.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
I'd say that's fair.Quote:
I guess what I'm saying with Furcal is he was probably slightly above average offensively, with some real question marks defensively,
Huh? That's the first I heard of this...:confused:Quote:
and some character question marks as well as he was just about to or just finishing up a jail term.
They also would have had to gone long term with Torii Hunter, which would be a worse plan than going short term with Andruw Jones and banking on a bounceback. That's really why I didn't see a problem with the signing - it was only two years.Quote:
But there have been others. I questioned the Andruw Jones deal AT THE START (though, again, I didn't even see THIS dropoff), but you saw a real, and long term (it was ALL season long last year, not just a couple of bad months), decline last year, and $18M is, well, I'd bet they could've gotten Torii Hunter for that or near that and coming off last year, and their ages, that it was a no brainer that Torii Hunter was the better option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
It was a DUI, or I guess perhaps a repetitive DUI situation. He kept hoping that last year in Atlanta that the Braves would make it and keep going because as soon as their season was over he had to begin his jail term.
Fair enough...Quote:
I dunno, it's been my opinion that he's too often tied too much money up in deals that were risky at best and dangerous at worst. Now, I realize (Ohms) that the market makes crazy things happen sometimes, but that's when the good GM's have to decide less is better than more in some cases and back off. I really believe they went too far with Furcal and Jones and Pierre. The fact that one of those three worked out (Furcal, and that even has the injury side effects), doesn't make it that much more impressive to me.
LOL, of course its also fair to point out that Ned Colletti is a real live MLB GM, and I'm just a real live blow hard. So that puts all of my comments in the proper perspective. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by ohms_law
Buy, hey, my fingers got a good 10 minute workout on that post. Now, if only I could get up off my fat arse and get to working out the rest of me. Then maybe I could change my name to just OldGuy.
Or better yet, to OldHe'sFinallyGettinSomeSoHe'sTooBusyToPostGuy. :D
OHFGSSHTBTPG, man, you live in the DC Metro area, go walk around downtown. That should be motivation enough to get in shape. There are some quality women here. Do it! Then I can live vicariously through you
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
Yeah he got 2 DUIs in under a year and served like 30 days in jail, but the jusge suspended his sentence 'till after the season.