I heard there was 7M in cash involved.
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I heard there was 7M in cash involved.
Ya thats what I have heard but i haven't seen any mention of it on ESPN or MLBQuote:
Originally Posted by rockiesfan4ever
Yea about 7m, the remaining balance on Rameriz's contractQuote:
Originally Posted by Red Sox Fan 734
Yea, they said so on WEEI. The Sox also lose 2 draft picks, as the Dodgers will offer Manny Arbitration, and get 2 picksQuote:
Originally Posted by rockiesfan4ever
Too bad we did not get Garbow as well. He is not the best, but he is goodish, and would help. Moss and Hansen will be missed.
LOL, I've HAMMERED Manny's attitude on this board for two years, and usually I got hammered right back by Sox fans, reading this thread I can't help but Laugh Out Loud.
It won't cost Boston any draft picks. Whoever signs MR in the offeason will lose two picks to LA assuming they offer arbitration, which they will.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
I expect either Pierre and/or Andruw Jones to get moved in a waiver wire deal, with LA eating most or all of their contracts.
There's not a team on this PLANET that's going to touch Andruw Jones, unless the Dodgers were going pay his salary NEXT season too.
EDIT: Whoops, I misread your statement, I see you were talking about the Dodgers eating the entire contract, not just this seasons salary. Sorry.
I'm pretty sure Jones contract is a one year deal, not positive on that though.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
LOL, I thought it was two. But I never know where to look to find out contract info. I still think it was a two year, $36 Million deal.
Jones does have a 2 year deal.
Wow...you know, it's not a bad trade all around. Even though LA already had a surplus of outfielders, let's face it, Pierre isn't an everyday guy, and Jones is AWFUL...and they needed the power bat. It's a nice move for Boston, and Pittsburgh picks up a nice load of serious prospects.
Red Sox lose their cancer cell. Might turn out to the best for them.
The best contracts site I know of. Bookmark this. I look at it constantly.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
Quote:
Andruw Jones of
2 years/$36.2M (2008-09)
signed as a free agent 12/07
$12.2M signing bonus ($5.1M in 2008, $2.1M in 2009, $5M in 2010)
08:$9M, 09:$15M
no-trade clause
perks: suite on road
Jones to donate $0.15M annually to club charity
6 years/$75M (2002-07) (Atlanta)
$3M signing bonus
02:$9.5M, 03:$11.5M, 04:$12M, 05:$12.5M, 06:$13M, 07:$13.5M
signed multi-year extension after 2001 season
1 year/$8.2M (2001), won arbitration ($8.2M-$6.4M) (record award)
1 year/$3.7M (2000)
1 year/$0.33M (1999)
1 year/$0.215M (1998)
1 year/$0.1525M (1997)
agent: Scott Boras
ML service: 11.047
I know Manny won't be in tonight's lineup for LA, but is Bay in the Red Sox lineup tonight, does anyone know?
EDIT: Never mind, didn't realize the Red Sox don't play tonight :D.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arctic Blast
Fili's useless take:
Dodgers: Definately helps this year. Concerns-Kent and Ramirez fighting over "playing the game the right way". Jeff Kemp thinking Manny's his big brother and emmulating him. LaRoche should be a quite a player down the road. Maybe not that far down the road.
RedSox: Got rid of Manny. Bay is a suitable replacement. They SHOULD have got bullpen help instead they lost Hansen. Plenty of relivers should be available on waivers though.
Pirates: Got a pretty good haul of prospects.
In honor of the olympics
Gold-Pirates
Silver-Sox
Bronze-Dodgers
Thanks man, it is now bookmarked. I always wanted to find out stuff like that, and I could never find it on Baseball Reference dot com. (That, ESPN, and a couple of forums are really my only "internets" experience, lol, oh and MLB.COM)Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
I THINK you mean Matt cos Jeff is a little passed it ,no ? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by filihok
:) Yeah. Matt Kemp...JEFF Kent. Got it nowQuote:
Originally Posted by FRENCHREDSOX
I agree. This was sure surprising though. The Dodgers came out of left field on this one... (pun completely intentional)Quote:
Originally Posted by YEAH DAAAAWG
;)
Just for fun I compared pre- & post- Manny trade results:
Pre Manny
BELOW is the average of 30 sims
Code:30 SEASONS SIMULATED
EAST Won Lost WC LC 1R 1st Wild 2nd 3rd 4th 5+
Baltimore 75.28 86.72 1 0 0 0 1 1 6 7 15
Boston 95.10 66.90 8 1 9 20 6 7 2 0 0
New York 86.24 75.76 1 3 1 6 5 9 8 6 0
Tampa Bay 83.45 78.62 0 0 3 3 5 10 9 6 1
Toronto 76.00 86.00 0 0 2 0 2 2 4 10 13
CENTRAL Won Lost WC LC 1R 1st Wild 2nd 3rd 4th 5+
Chicago 78.21 83.79 0 0 1 6 0 4 9 4 6
Cleveland 82.31 79.72 2 1 2 8 3 8 2 5 6
Detroit 78.52 83.48 1 0 2 4 1 8 4 5 8
Kansas City 77.14 84.90 0 0 1 1 1 4 7 10 7
Minnesota 83.07 78.97 1 1 2 10 2 5 7 5 2
WEST Won Lost WC LC 1R 1st Wild 2nd 3rd 4th 5+
Los Angeles 88.97 73.07 5 3 4 19 1 5 5 0 0
Oakland 78.34 83.66 0 1 0 2 0 10 9 8 0
Seattle 75.38 86.69 0 0 1 2 2 8 6 13 0
Texas 76.76 85.38 0 0 1 6 0 6 9 8 0
EAST Won Lost WC LC 1R 1st Wild 2nd 3rd 4th 5+
Atlanta 82.79 79.24 0 1 2 2 4 6 13 8 0
Florida 75.72 86.28 0 0 1 1 0 1 7 14 6
New York 90.72 71.28 3 6 5 15 5 11 1 2 0
Philadelphia 90.52 71.48 0 3 5 11 3 11 7 0 0
Washington 66.69 95.31 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 5 23
CENTRAL Won Lost WC LC 1R 1st Wild 2nd 3rd 4th 5+
Chicago 83.48 78.59 2 0 2 5 0 8 4 4 8
Cincinnati 72.59 89.41 0 0 0 0 0 1 3 4 21
Houston 79.17 82.86 0 2 0 3 1 4 7 4 11
Milwaukee 80.00 82.03 1 0 0 4 0 0 8 5 12
Pittsburgh 81.31 80.76 0 1 0 4 3 7 3 10 5
St. Louis 89.38 72.69 1 0 6 13 4 9 4 2 1
WEST Won Lost WC LC 1R 1st Wild 2nd 3rd 4th 5+
Arizona 90.14 71.90 1 4 4 15 4 9 4 1 0
Colorado 75.93 86.07 0 0 0 0 0 3 10 9 7
Los Angeles 89.00 73.03 2 2 4 12 3 10 5 2 0
San Diego 79.41 82.62 0 0 0 2 2 7 8 7 5
San Francisco 68.79 93.21 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 10 17
Post Manny (same settings as above but Manny deadline deals included)
as can be seen doesnt really affect Sox much THIS YEAR but Dodgers EDGE the D Backs & Pirates suffer the most losing their MAIN power bat.Code:20 SEASONS SIMULATED
EAST Won Lost WC LC 1R 1st Wild 2nd 3rd 4th 5+
Baltimore 75.60 86.45 0 0 2 1 1 1 4 5 9
Boston 93.20 68.80 7 5 2 15 3 3 1 0 1
New York 87.25 74.75 3 0 1 4 5 6 6 4 0
Tampa Bay 84.15 77.90 1 0 1 0 8 10 5 1 4
Toronto 75.35 86.65 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 10 6
CENTRAL Won Lost WC LC 1R 1st Wild 2nd 3rd 4th 5+
Chicago 77.10 84.90 0 0 0 2 0 5 4 5 4
Cleveland 82.45 79.55 0 1 3 8 1 5 3 1 3
Detroit 79.30 82.70 1 0 2 4 0 1 7 2 6
Kansas City 77.95 84.05 0 0 1 3 0 4 3 6 4
Minnesota 80.75 81.25 1 1 1 3 2 5 3 6 3
WEST Won Lost WC LC 1R 1st Wild 2nd 3rd 4th 5+
Los Angeles 87.90 74.15 0 0 6 17 0 1 0 2 0
Oakland 77.90 84.10 0 0 1 2 0 6 6 6 0
Seattle 76.65 85.35 0 0 0 0 0 6 8 6 0
Texas 77.00 85.05 0 0 0 1 0 7 6 6 0
EAST Won Lost WC LC 1R 1st Wild 2nd 3rd 4th 5+
Atlanta 82.55 79.50 0 1 1 2 2 3 7 8 0
Florida 78.35 83.65 0 0 0 1 0 4 5 9 1
New York 89.40 72.65 1 1 2 6 4 8 5 1 0
Philadelphia 92.15 69.85 1 5 2 11 3 5 3 1 0
Washington 67.75 94.25 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 19
CENTRAL Won Lost WC LC 1R 1st Wild 2nd 3rd 4th 5+
Chicago 86.60 75.40 2 3 0 9 1 5 2 3 1
Cincinnati 72.45 89.55 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 4 14
Houston 78.35 83.70 0 0 1 1 0 2 8 1 8
Milwaukee 78.65 83.35 0 0 0 0 0 3 5 7 5
Pittsburgh 75.40 86.60 0 0 0 2 0 1 2 5 10
St. Louis 88.85 73.20 1 0 4 8 2 9 1 0 2
WEST Won Lost WC LC 1R 1st Wild 2nd 3rd 4th 5+
Arizona 90.15 71.85 0 1 6 11 2 6 1 2 0
Colorado 79.40 82.60 0 0 0 0 1 2 10 5 3
Los Angeles 91.40 70.60 2 2 4 9 5 10 1 0 0
San Diego 77.40 84.60 0 0 0 0 0 2 7 6 5
San Francisco 66.80 95.20 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 7 12
It helps the sox as they win a higher percentage of WS. 7/20 vs 8/30. Or you made a typoQuote:
Originally Posted by FRENCHREDSOX
Uh, first off, why did you 30 with Manny and 20 without. Also, I don't think the way Mogul says it affects the team really tells us anything, especially considering you can't factor into the equation the intangibles, or lack thereof, with Manny, and the team's record prior to the trade and that kind of stuff.
I don't see how this is anything but good for the Dodgers. LaRoche still hasn't proven to anyone that he can handle hitting at this level. Bryan Morris isn't really worth much, and the Dodgers don't have to pay Manny a cent (Sox cover 08 salary, option getting dropped) and they get draft picks.
Casey Blake is a decent enough hitter to hold down the job for this year, and DeWitt becomes the future at 3rd. I think he can grow back into that role when they need him. Or maybe they get another move later to bring in another 3rd baseman. Either way, they're set up very well for a playoff run with the way their pitching has been.
Same story as the last ten years. We trade away a future start (LaRoche) for a minimal chance at a deep play off run.Quote:
Originally Posted by haveacigar
If LaRoche is a future star, then the trade becomes horrible, definitely. But I'll wait until he proves himself before I consider this a bad trade. It's not like they're bringing in Julio Lugo again.Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
Who cares any more, it's time for the Angels to beat up on the Yankees now that we're done with the Red Sox...
:D
Please do.Quote:
Originally Posted by ohms_law
As a Dodger FAN, I'd be unhappy about it, so I understand. Myself, though, I just like baseball, and I want to see Andy LaRoche play, so that's why I'm happy he's out of LA. DeWitt had one good month, and he's been horrible since June 1st. The Dodgers should've given LaRoche the starting job has soon as he returned from his injury and let him play (they should've let him play last year too). They always found a way to not let him play.Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
I'd say the biggest part was the Dodgers, using the circumstances as an excuse.Quote:
Part of the problem was the Dodgers. A bigger part was circumstances.
That'd be logical, but with ultrasuperstar $44 million man Juan Pierre involved, logic flies out the window.Quote:
LF Manny CF Kemp RF Ethier Bench Pierre Far end of the bench Jones
6-0 on two 3 run homers, so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by YEAH DAAAAWG
:D
I don't know, I go back and forth. Up front, its a HUGE loss for the Sox and they are a worse team today then they were yesterday. Not looking at the yearly stats, but with RISP and in big spots Manny raked big and its a huge loss. His lengthy battles with pitchers during late innings of playoff games were so memorable and important.Quote:
Originally Posted by YEAH DAAAAWG
The Sox IMO did a horrific job here. I think keeping Manny happy would have been very easy, and they did show some lack of respect leaving Manny a lame duck for so long. He quietly performed first half of this year and that should have been enough for the Sox to pick up his option, extend his contract..or at least let him know where things stood. The Sox wanted to stand their guns and wait until the last minute however, and that is their right but its not a good way to handle your best player.
Getting Bay is nice, he's having a solid year and is a superb person from everything I've seen. Everyone says he's a big upgrade defensively...i'm not so sure of that. Playing the wall isn't easy and once he learns it i'm quite certain he'll be better, but that doesn't happen right away. Manny IMO was underrated defensively in Bostons LF...he played the wall well. Now don't take that out of context, i'm by no means giving him a gold glove.
The lineup takes a big hit....Papi won't see the same pitches and it'll be interesting to see how he performs. I said earlier I thought Manny had to be moved as the remainder of the season I could see going very south due to his unhappiness. I stand by that...however I believe it never should have gotten to this point.
I think the thing people forget about this is that they're trading a 36 year old Ramirez, not a 30 year old Ramirez. Ramirez is very replaceable at this point in his career. Hes still an offensive force to be reckoned with, but so is Bay.
To be honest, Bay has been basically just as productive, on a worse team, this season as Ramirez has.
This reminds me a lot of the '04 Nomar trade. Theo took a lot of crap for it and a lot of the fans didn't like it, but it all worked out in the end, didn't it ;)? I'm not saying the Red Sox will win the World Series because of this, but I don't think they lost a damn thing by trading Ramirez, in fact, I think they're better off.
Bay and Manny are basically equal hitters at this point in their career (and I think Bay will only do better in a better hitter's park like Fenway with a better lineup around him), Bay is a superior fielder, though I understand it will probably take him a while to get used to playing the wall in left, Bay is a better baserunner, and not just faster but smarter, and a smarter ballplayer all around. He does the little things that Manny didn't, wouldn't, or couldn't do, he'll run out groundballs, he won't ask out of the lineup in an important series against the Yankees, and, I think, he'll be more motivated than ever and he'll perform better because he'll be in the first Pennant Race of his career.
As a whole I agree somewhat but in a big playoff spot with RISP its a no-brainer who I want at the plate. Not even close.Quote:
Originally Posted by YEAH DAAAAWG
It doesn't matter the dodgers still can't beat the Cubs or Milwaukee in the NL and definitely can't beat the Angels in the AL.
PS WS is going to be the Angels and Cubs!
Ortiz :p?Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
Lies!!!!!! You said you were a D-Backs fan!!! So much for loyalty!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
And in a pitchers park.Quote:
To be honest, Bay has been basically just as productive, on a worse team, this season as Ramirez has.
Blah...Quote:
As a whole I agree somewhat but in a big playoff spot with RISP its a no-brainer who I want at the plate. Not even close.
Exactly, and in a worse lineup with lower quality protection around him.Quote:
Originally Posted by ohms_law
(I know he had Nady for a while, but Nady and the rest of the boys on the Pirates are not even close to what Manny has had around him with Drew and Youk and Lowell and the rest of the good/great hitters on the Red Sox.)
That's what they said about the 83 win Cardinals in 2006. "No way they get through the Mets, or through the far superior AL, with that lineup and rotation."Quote:
Originally Posted by Reade
But they did.
If you get into the playoffs you have a chance...
thanks sherlock. I'll pass it along :pQuote:
Originally Posted by filihok