Really?Quote:
And Hanley is on the Marlins, and they are related.
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Really?Quote:
And Hanley is on the Marlins, and they are related.
Yea, they are. Cousins or someting. Aramis is also related to, but I am sure you already knew, seeing as you are a Cubs fan
Opinions on his antics aside.....its very possible the greatest hitter in Red Sox history is being traded tonight. Its pretty shocking. Sure, one could say blasphemy and scream Ted Williams....but Manny's easily in the discussion with Williams and I don't think anyone in here actually saw Williams play. This is a pretty shocking trade if it happens.
FYI: from http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...=.jsp&c_id=mlb
The thing is... Manny is a child. Yea, he plays great baseball (probably because he is a child) which in the end is all that matters, but... There comes a point in time to say "that's enough", you know?Quote:
On July 27, Ramirez made his first public comments in a while, saying he would waive his no-trade rights if the Red Sox found a new destination for him, and also adding, "I'm tired of them, they're tired of me."
I agree, Manny is a near irreplaceble part or Red Sox history. He is one of the all time greats, and I wish he was happy here and the Sox were happy with him. I feel a trade may happen, but it will be shocking
I agree no doubt. I also think the Sox play of late has been effected by this whole saga. A finale to it would be nice and welcomed.Quote:
Originally Posted by ohms_law
Yea, I think so too. They've all been playing it cool but based on watching the last couple of games they seem... distracted. It's odd to see things like that Texas leaguer fall in to shallow center against the Sox... Youk blooping a short hopper... Beckett basically getting rocked... just a general malaise look to them tonight. Manny actually looked happy though, which I found to be somewhat interesting. Ortiz comes back and the team goes into a funk. Go figure.
By the way: Gammons: Manny deal not yet completed
Posted 7 minutes ago, according to Google News.
Edit: ahh... posted @ 10:34 pm et
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/...trade_deadline
Quote:
Gammons: Manny deal complicated
Wednesday, July 30, 2008 | Print Entry
Posted by Peter Gammons
As midnight approached Wednesday night on the East Coast, officials from the Marlins and Red Sox said a deal involving Manny Ramirez was not done. Indications from Pittsburgh were that the Pirates were not satisfied with the players they were receiving in exchange for sending Jason Bay to Boston. And in California, Ramirez's agent, Scott Boras, said he had been told nothing, which means nothing has been completed in terms of Ramirez's waving his no-trade rights or in completing paperwork to send to the commissioner's office.
So, the complicated three-way deal might go down close to Thursday's 4 p.m. ET deadline. Ramirez wants out, and is willing to go to Florida. The Marlins want him -- and what he means to their pennant chances and pursuit of a new ballpark. The Red Sox clearly are willing to finance Ramirez's exit.
But the value of the young players was a sticking point late into the night, and one Red Sox official said, "This is anything but done."
The Nomar Garciaparra deal in 2004 went down to minutes before the deadline, and there was so much confusion the Twins never received the second prospect they thought they were owed. This might be Nomar Redux.
Aramis and Manny are cousins. Hanley, no.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
Well, I'm sorry, but, you don't have to have seen Williams to know he was a far greater hitter than Manny Ramirez. Best right-handed hitter in Red Sox history, yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
Break it down for us stathead....and of course cherry pick the stats that suit your argument best :DQuote:
Well, I'm sorry, but, you don't have to have seen Williams to know he was a far greater hitter than Manny Ramirez. Best right-handed hitter in Red Sox history, yeah.
But seriously, I'd like to see the definitive evidence that Williams had a better career...and the fact Manny's career isn't over needs to be taken into effect.
One could say Ruth was the best red sox hitter, but I'm not including him as he had limited at bats as a sawk.
From what I see....Williams in the end is probably the best hitter but all I'm saying is an argument can be made...especially taken into account the level of talent in todays game. Williams OBA was simply amazing. Higher batting average and yes did lose a few years due to military service. Manny will end with more HR's, RBI's, and hits. Williams like never struck out. You can play with your OPS+ stat as to this day I don't fully know how that effectively compares players from different generations.
I'll be watching closely today to see what happens
I hadn't heard this rumor
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/tools/med/2...1217477867.jpg
"The Red Sox don't deserve a player like me," Ramirez said. "During my years here, I've seen how they [the Red Sox] have mistreated other great players when they didn't want them to try to turn the fans against them.
"The Red Sox did the same with guys like Nomar Garciaparra and Pedro Martinez, and now they do the same with me. Their goal is to paint me as the bad guy," Ramirez added. "I love Boston fans, but the Red Sox don't deserve me. I'm not talking about money. Mental peace has no price, and I don't have peace here."
I've heard that the top rumor is Hermida to the Pirates, Bay to the Red Sox, Manny to the Marlins.
I think it will happen, Manny is getting madder by the hour, as his comments show. He obviously wants out
I think the Red Sox are so desperate to get him out of town that they'll MAKE the deal happen.
Personally, I like this 3-way deal they've talked about. Bay is no Manny, but hes a damn good hitter and I think he'd flourish if he called Fenway, and not PNC, home, especially peppering balls of the Monster.
Offhand, I don't see any reason for the Pirates to make such a trade. I like Hermida an awful lot; he's a good hitter and he'll be such for several years. But Bay is established and I don't think there's a lot that Hermida brings that Bay doesn't...why shuffle up a good thing?Quote:
Originally Posted by YEAH DAAAAWG
Hermida's younger and cheaper, for one. Plus the Pirates would get two or three other prospects from Boston and Florida, Jed Lowrie, Ryan Tucker, and another guy from what I've read/heard.Quote:
Originally Posted by oriole^
That's pretty much the bulk of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
Because, as you said, Ted Williams lost basically 5 seasons to the military.Quote:
Higher batting average and yes did lose a few years due to military service. Manny will end with more HR's, RBI's, and hits.
It compares the player's OPS to the league average, so it tells you how much better than average a player was for his league.Quote:
You can play with your OPS+ stat as to this day I don't fully know how that effectively compares players from different generations.
The main reason that Ted Williams is the best hitter in Red Sox history is because of his OBP. His .482 career OBP is ridiculous. Manny's career high is .457.
Williams career OPS+ is 192. Manny's career high is 186. Manny's career OPS+ is 154. Ted Williams had ONE season lower than 160, and that was his second to last season in 1959.
Williams was better than Manny in every facet of offense, which is saying somethning because Manny is friggen great. Yes, Manny will have higher career counting totals, but you absolutely have to account for the time Williams missed to the war. He missed 3 years right in the middle of his prime, coming off two .499 OBP+ seasons. He came back right where he left off with 4 more seasons above a .490 OBP. He was simply a phenomenal bat, and while Manny is too, I simply can't ignore the near 80 point lead Ted has in OBP, and the almost 40 point gap in OPS+.
Trade manny to Green Bay for Farve:D