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I agree. He will have a tough time getting out of Boston.
1. He's probably DH material at this point.
2. He'd be a 20 million dollar DH.
3. He IS a distraction.
4. Not everyone (team mates) thinks his antics are cute, and that reputation spreads as guys come and go.
To be honest, I don't see all that many Ramirez jerseys. Ortiz is king in merchandising, Daisuke, Beckett, Papelbon, even quite a few Lowell and V-Tek (he's on the Life Water trucks now) but not so many Manny items.
b/c its hard to trade a guy that makes $20mil/yr who plays when he deems its important & it fits in his schedule?
If he retires in Boston then he's retiring this year, because Boston is not going to have him next year. The Red Sox are done with him.
Then he'll retire a Free Agent, unless he agrees to a major salary drop to play for another team.
Lol!Quote:
Originally Posted by etothep
wow, I can't believe how many people don't understand the baseball market. Again, i'm on record....manny will either play for Boston next year with the 20 mil option (unlikely) or a new 3 year deal, or he will be traded (most likely). He won't become a FA. Someone will most certainly take him and sign him to a 3yr deal worth near 20 mil if not over.
As for him retiring a Red Sox........who is the last big Red Sox player that retired while on the Sox?? Do we have to go all the way back to Greenwell (I know the term 'big' might not fit him much but he was a long tenured starter). I think Burks retired a Sock but that was a short one year deal after he floated around the NL.
Won't happen.
What will happen then? a trade? to who?
Seems like I heard last night that Manny wants Boston to opt out on his contract because he seems to think he can get 4 yrs/$100MM on theopen market. WTF? Who's going to give him that?
Obligatory "The d@mn Yankees will!!11!" postQuote:
Originally Posted by beerchaser
Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
1. Merchandice. If anything Manny material will go through the floor. I'll bet a lot of people put away their Manny jerseys this weekend. Also MLB doesn't have a European Soccer model. The merchandice sold in the US is spread out among every team. So it's not like 300,000 jerseys sold here goes straight to the Sox.
2. No one wants him? As I've said before, the Yanks would take him just for the psychological impact. Let's face it. Manny rakes when Manny wants too. Any team he went to would see a vintage Manny for the first year...it's the next two years you would have to worry about. As for is Manny worth 20 mill a year? If you go by Arod (being slightly overpaid imo) as the bar setter. Then yes, I think Manny is worth 20 mill a year. As for the waivers, that was a while ago before contracts went through the roof. Some think Manny is a steal right now, I think 20 mill is just about right.
3. That 'they never would have won without Manny' is getting tiresome as ****. Without Manny..who knows...maybe in this alternative reality Arod would be a Red Sox, or if for some reason the Sox *never* got a big bat since 2001, they certainly would have gone after Ordonez in 2005, and maybe we'd be trumpeting last year as the first WS in a kajillion years.
4. Finally...I get the feeling Manny and Papi arn't all THAT close. Lugo seems to a lot closer friend to Manny.
Yes, the option will be picked up to give Boston control over his rights. They will trade him to a team and he will agree as they will have a new 3 year 20 mil or close to it contract worked out ahead of time. I posted in another thread, but likely the Angels, Tigers, Mets, Astros, Diamondbacks, Rockies, White Sox, maybe the Dodgers, Orioles, Nationals, and a handful of other mid-market teams who think they can contend or improve marketability. Here's a sleeper...the Indians.Quote:
Originally Posted by twinsGM
So I think we are in agreement. Although I think it unlikely he'll retire a Sock, I don't think it impossible. As I said I could see him coming back to the Sox with a new 3 year deal. I also agree that the contract is about right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavelb1
If everyone's feelings arn't too hurt at the end of the season. I'd think a three year 21 million contract would be perfectly reasonable.Quote:
Originally Posted by twinsGM
21 mil per maybe lol. If you think Manny would sniff a 7 year per contract you're joking or very naive regarding baseball economics. Sorry to be blunt about it.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavelb1
However, I think Boras and Manny have greatly overestimated his value. Remember when the season began and Manny had worked out all winter and was saying how happy he was and how he wanted to play for six more years and retire a Red Sox....I GUESS that was Manny's little way of telling management what he wanted. Apparently either everyone nodded and smiled like I did and said "Ok, ok Manny, calm down and we'll see what happens at the end of the year."....or maybe they completly understood what Manny was getting at and told him no effing way he was getting a six year contract.Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
Man I hate Boras.
I think that Seattle would be a great fit for Manny, but I doubt he would want to go to Seattle. I mean at DH, Manny or Vidro, not very hard of a choice. But Manny is still worth his contract. The problem thou, I see with Seattle Management, Manny will be worth his contract his first year, 2nd year maybe not...3rd and 4th...well all I can say is a la Sexson. Thou Manny is head and shoulders above Richie Sexson, the age will catch up to Manny.
Manny will get a 4 or 5 year deal, in that span, he will break 600 homers and possibly more.... He will bring fans to the stadium.... (a la bonds)
I think anyone who thought at 36years of age that he'd happily take that one year team option for two consecutive years was nuts. The Red Sox most certainly knew it wouldn't happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavelb1
You can't hate Boris for taking advantage of the owners. You should hate the owners. Some stupid GM out there will try to make a splash and sign Manny to a ridicious contract.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavelb1
I remember Clay wrote an article about how Manny was worth every penny of his contract....I'll find it :)
not out of the realm of possibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by boomboom
So, let me get this straight. One complete jackass off the field (Bonds), but who has always performed on the field can't get a contract whereas one complete jackass ON the field (loafing, refusing to play, at times "somewhere out in left field"), can get $20,000,000 per year?? That about the sum of it???
Well Manny is a lot younger than Bonds ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
Haha, maybe it would have been easier to list the teams that wouldn't trade for him?Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
over-simplificationQuote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
No, not quite. Its amazing how easily you can sum up Manny's on the field performance in a few instances and use that as a collective for his entire career with Boston. The guy has to average pretty close to 145 games per year, 500 or so at bats and puts up amazing numbers. Yes, he's worth 20 mil per...every penny of it. Now the length of the contract is the issue. I do think his 'antics' will leave teams scared to go longer than 3 years on a deal as thats too much of a risk when factoring his age. Manny will try to get a 4th year, and maybe he'll find a sucker....but I see no reason he won't get 3 years unless the remainder of this season blows up to a real issue. I don't think recent events have been an issue at all outside of the media spurring something that should make sense to all of us. It's business, nothing more.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFatGuy
Yastrzemski.Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
Greenwell was not exactly your standard retiree. No one wanted him in large part because he was a hardline union guy and therefore, trouble.
It's not like Manny decides to take a weekend off when the Orioles come to town. He's screwed up the Sox in a LOT of big games, sitting against the Yanks in big series' not playing down the pennant stretch, loafing in important divisional series. he's not a team oriented player, popular, lovable goofy b@stard, yes, but Manny puts an I in team too often.
I would put Jim Rice in before Yas then. He was more recent. Surprising you have to go back that far.Quote:
Originally Posted by robinhoodnik
To quote Dennis Eckersley, "shut up and play, you signed the contract.".Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
True, had forgotten about him. :oQuote:
Originally Posted by dickay
I would agree he's not a team oriented player. The guys on record of being a hitting machine, thats all he does. He drew ire in the playoffs last year when (I can't remember exactly how it played out) after being something about how he'll feel if the Sox lose, he said he'd pack out his locker and get working towards next year...as if to say it wouldn't phase him. He seriously plays the game as a 'game' and doesn't stress when they lose.Quote:
Originally Posted by robinhoodnik
I don't think its a lack of heart, I do believe from what everyones said for years that he trains as hard as anyone on the team, and I also think he plays hard **most of the time**. Perfect, absolutely not. But definetly not enough of a strain to put him in a situation where like Bonds nobody will touch him....and to be honest, the Red Sox would like to have him back as well. They just don't want a long term deal with him.
The Giants attendance hasn't taken the dive many expect it to this year. They're not selling out as much, but its certainly not in the low 20Ks like many predicted. Believe it or not there are some actual Giants fans out here, not just Bonds/HR fans.Quote:
Manny will get a 4 or 5 year deal, in that span, he will break 600 homers and possibly more.... He will bring fans to the stadium.... (a la bonds)
Attendance will probably drop significantly in the next couple years as the Giants post 2-3 more losing seasons before they can even start to think about winning again. But it hasn't yet.
I said this many times ...
whether or not they pick up the option will purely be based on whether than can adequately replace him. The Sox have learned to place emotion on the back burner when it comes to putting together a team (Ask Nomar about that).
as far as the reasons.
1) They fans will buy jerseys that "Red Sox" on them at the end of the day the name on the back dosen;t matter.
2 & 3) true they won't trade him because they won't get equal value, but that dosnet mean no one wants them
4) they will find someone to replace him eventually
5) Boston guy?? actually the media makes him nervous and prone to make odd statements.
Hmmm...after giving this a bit of thought, the Angels seem like they could be an interested suitor. They desperately need another stick in the lineup, though they already have a bunch of OF corner/DH type guys on the roster.
None that are actually all that good, though, outside of Vlad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arctic Blast
Yeah, that's true. They'd have to unload somebody (are any of their contracts up after the year?), but I think the Angels would make a lot of sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
I agree, Manny will stay a Sox player. Or so I hope.