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OK..something is going on here
June 22, 1969. Steve Carlton goes 7.2 for the Washington Senators. Gives up 2 runs on 5 hits, walks 4 and strikes out 9. My guess is about 110-120 pitches. Nope he throws 181 pitches!!! I think this is way too many for what he did. Also look at June 28th. 6 innings and 177 pitches? How many foul balls are we talking here?
in pbp i had a pitcher throw 200 pitches
this wasn't PBP, this is just simming. I can understand big pitch counts, but not for what he's done.
I had a rookie pitcher of mine throw a no-hitter in his second big league start and he threw 172 pitches. That i thought was highly unrealistic because nobody in their right mind would let a veteran, much less a rookie, throw that many pitches (no-hitter or not)
Change your strategy settings.
not that simple. Let's say there was a setting I could tweak where I could take them out after 110 pitches (would be nice if that could be done) with that many pitches being pitched in 7 or 6 innings, my starters would be coming out after 4 or 5 innings everytime.
Yeah, I agree. I've always felt the pitch counts were a bit distorted.
Ahhh, I get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by cartman00000001
Yep. I do think pitch counts are a tad on the high side, and for modern day games, it doesn't accurately model real life in terms of pulling pitchers, although I've basically just brushed it off as I don't think pitch counts are tied to injury.
tweak down the pitch around, pitch out, and intentional walk settings a bit maybe.
gl
He's throwing an incredibly high rate of 76% strikes. It's not pitches out of the zone that are the problem.
Power pitchers have always seemed to have had this problem in Mogul. HGM is right though, in that it's more or less a cosmetic issue. Not completely, but mostly.
Thats why i like low power high control high movement pitchers - they seem to be more efficient.
let me play a little bit with that June 28th game
6 innings, 180 pitches (rounded up for simplification) that's 30 pitches per inning. Let's say it's a 1-2-3 inning, that's 10 pitches per batter. Now not all go 3-2, but if they do, that's 5 fouls per batter EVERY TIME.
Now if you did pull after 120 pitches, your starters are going 4 innings. That means you need 5 RP's to complete a 9 inning game (going with that 30 pitches per inning for the bullpen as well). Now I'd say 30 pitches for your RP is fairly high for them with little endurance. If you are blasting through 5 out of you 6 RP every game, you'd need a bullpen of 9 or 10 just to get through a season...maybe more.
Na...this is a problem. Tweaking might not help, but I'm game. I have band practice tonight, but tomorrow I'll play with the settings some and see how that goes.
Yeah, those pitch counts are REALLY out of whack, which is definitely related to it being a historical game, as the modern day games aren't quite that bad.
I believe that high pitch-counts -in PBP- favour the hitter...when I'm hitting in the PBP menu, I pitch in the "Player" mode to keep the p-c down, and my starters usually get a "Quality Start", (3 earned runs, or fewer) having gone at least five innings without exceeding their p.c.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Then during my team's ups, I revert to "manager" mode, 'cos I've discovered that it accelerates the opposing pitcher's p-c something diabolical, so that - together with the AI's laxity in changing pitchers - late-inning rallies are quite commonplace by my boys (a study of the Canajun Ehs box-scores will confirm this)
Another interesting study is that of one's sortable stats...when assessing the
worth of a pitcher, compare the number of pitches thrown with his E.R.A....
I predict that the greater the former, the higher the latter
OK...I did a quick tweak. I simmed 1 week, I think he got 2 starts. Check out that last start. 142 pitches in 3 innings?? I know he gave up a lot of runs and hits, but NO WAY does a pitcher do that. I also have a picture of the tweak I did.
How is it simply cosmetic? If pitch counts affect in-game fatigue (as I believe HGM confirmed for me that they do) then power pitchers are relegated to fewer innings/game. This puts them at a massive disadvantage. In reality, being a power pitcher does not necessarily mean high pitch counts. I read a THT study a year or so ago that showed that more strikeouts does not correlate to more pitches (although more walks does).Quote:
Originally Posted by ohms_law
Well, that's certainly all true.
They don't affect injury rates though, as far as I know. If they did, I'd be making a huge stink about the high pitch counts. :p
Is this the article? If so, the author is saying that if BABIP remains constant, a change in a pitcher's K-rate changes the number of BIP, and thus the number of pitches per PA remain basically the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by knicks0929
This, from the article, is still true:
Quote:
the average walk takes 5.5 pitches, the average strikeout is done in 4.8 pitches, and all other plate appearances average around 3.3
:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Somewhere,
I'd swear Ohms has written that
if
pitch count > 150% x endurance
then
injury potential is increased.
pretty sure that was speaking to v 10.31 though.
Having now seen op's setting,
i cant help but concur with
wtf ??:confused:
Well, he's saying that, but he's also saying:Quote:
Originally Posted by SirKodiak
Then, on top of that, what you said comes into play. Fewer strikeouts increases the number of balls in play, and thus increases hits and home runs, which in turn increase the pitch count.Quote:
Basically, what we’re seeing is that striking out fewer batters has absolutely no effect on pitch counts
http://forum.sportsmogul.com/showthr...974#post543974
not quite the one i was looking for but seems to indicate
ultra high pitch counts will have effect on injury rate
I could only find one reference to this in Clay's post (or elsewhere in that thread):Quote:
Originally Posted by MeetDaMets
He sort of alludes to it, but doesn't go into detail. I'd be very interested to know how this actually works, since it makes a big difference in strategy. Is anyone capable of looking at the code or something and figuring this out? Or maybe Clay could shed some light?Quote:
There are other factors, like lefty-righty matchups, and trying to protect your pitcher's arm (the articles on 'Pitcher Abuse Points' at Baseball Prospectus have some good research here).
Agreed! I think this is pretty important to know
(or maybe it's left vague, as IRL it is vague)
Well, the magnitude and pitch count threshold of the effect is vague, but the existence of it is entirely clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
Is it? I'm not even sure what THIS is.
Pitchers get tired after a certain point. That seems logical.
What I wanted to know was do elevated pitch counts lead to injury in BM. No one seems to be telling. Well, IRL, there's plenty of debate about if elevated pitch counts lead to injury.
the last 2 posts in that thread seems to directly address if pitchers break down as a result of high pitch count , ohms gives an affirmative reply.:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by knicks0929
dwright5
"Does a pitcher that throws 120 pitches every 5th day with an endurance rating of 85 have a bigger chance to get injured than one who throws 75 pitches per start with the same endurance and health ratings?".....
ohms
"Yes...."
What's unclear is if the increase in injuries is due to the cumulative effect of more pitches or because the pitcher is pitching more giving him more opportunities to be injured.Quote:
Originally Posted by MeetDaMets
On an individual level, the answer is no. I'll let Clay answer in more detail if he feels the need to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
:confused:
http://forum.sportsmogul.com/showpos...4&postcount=36
soooo which is it , ohms ?
in the links i provide you indicate YES there is a relationship between endurance and injury,
yet your reply here indicated otherwise.
i iz confuzed:confused:
Well if BM doesn't follow this, it should.Quote:
Originally Posted by SirKodiak
I honestly don't even know if I want to know. No one knows IRL so we should we.Quote:
Originally Posted by ohms_law
Some people will baby their pitchers and get injuries.
Some will throw their pitchers to the wolves and get injuries.
I think we need to know because if pitch counts do indeed affect injury rates, than it's imperitive that the in-game pitch counts are tweaked to be more realistic.Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
Fair enough
Actual pitch counts don't, pitcher usage does.
Could you define this a little bit more?Quote:
Originally Posted by ohms_law
It seems to me that allowing a guy to throw 170 pitches is pitcher usage
...I'm not sure if I should. It's not my code to give away, you know?
Summed up, Filihok, I'd advise, when in doubt, try not to exceed any hurler's p-c(i.e. his "endurance rating" number) to any great degree, in each game...that, imo, is playing it safe.
Well, you're not giving the CODE away, just the effect of the code. I mean I could play 100 seasons and only focus on the injuries and figure it out - we just asked for how something works, not how it's coded. But w/e.Quote:
Originally Posted by ohms_law