1) No, that is their choice. Whether or not they are really gay, it's an incredibly convenient way to insult them.Quote:
Originally Posted by free2131
2) He is incredibly overrated, plays for a team I despise, and is greedy.
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1) No, that is their choice. Whether or not they are really gay, it's an incredibly convenient way to insult them.Quote:
Originally Posted by free2131
2) He is incredibly overrated, plays for a team I despise, and is greedy.
Okay...how is that not basically a description of Mariano Rivera? I have yet to hear of anyone having any kind of problem with him, seems to be well liked, quiet guy who keeps to himself, doesn't gloat, has almost 500 career saves, several of the most dominant seasons ever posted by a relief pitcher, all time postseason saves leader, 4 times Relief Pitcher of the Year, 1999 World Series MVP, 2003 ALCS MVP, finished 3rd in Cy Young voting in '96 AS A FREAKIN' SETUP MAN, and has spent a ton of his own money back home in Panama, buying Christmas gifts for kids, and building a school and a church. Oh, and he has 4 rings.Quote:
Originally Posted by metsguy234
How is he a bad closer?
And he is incredibly greedy and overrated and plays for an evil team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arctic Blast
How, based on everything I just posted, is he overrated? And I want arguments based on FACTS, not more infantile namecalling, if you are in fact CAPABLE of using FACT. Also, how exactly is he greedy...for signing a massive contract when it was offered? That's called 'having a working brain'.Quote:
Originally Posted by metsguy234
He has NO facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arctic Blast
You guys, just stop. He's not going to agree with you. He gets off on the attention and the controversy. Stop trying to convince him.
It's a weak crop of C's in the AL; maybe some players scanned the list of catchers and decided to go in reverse alphabetical order by last name after tabbing Mauer. It's certainly not impossible.
What has Derek Jeter done that makes him "not a good guy", besides playing for the Yankees?Quote:
Originally Posted by metsguy234
And can you quit the "gay" nonsense? It's really childish.
This after proclaiming him a Hall of Famer....lol.Quote:
Billy Wagner SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ON THE ALL STAR TEAM.
He just gave up a 2-run HR to Jayson Freakin' Worth in the bottom of the 9th and the Phillies tied the game. The Mets should trade him.
And shows a lot about your character.Quote:
1) No, that is their choice. Whether or not they are really gay, it's an incredibly convenient way to insult them.
He's overrated defensively, and incredibly underrated offensively. Playing for a team you despise is what is coloring your opinions of him as a baseball player, and I don't see how you can say he's greedy when you don't know the guy at all.Quote:
2) He is incredibly overrated, plays for a team I despise, and is greedy.
Oh, I see now. Anybody that plays for the Yankees long-term is automatically greedy and overrated. Got it.Quote:
And he is incredibly greedy and overrated and plays for an evil team.
Wow, the AL pitching staff is stacked. I just think that Brandon Morrow should have made the team. He started late but has like a 0.65 ERA. He may have started late but he has had a great year.
The AL team already has more than enough relievers.
I know, the whole staff is stacked. Only if someone got hurt.
And pretty ridiculous considering what's known of Jeter's personal life.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Hey I'll call myself gay if it'll get me the women that flock around Jeter.
Even if Jeter isn't gay, he's quite a "pretty boy", as they say.Quote:
Originally Posted by JayC
Nah, has to be gay!Quote:
Originally Posted by metsguy234
http://www.roundcardmodels.com/images/rcmJeter.jpg
Your so obsessed with gay stuff and stuff like that, how do we know your not gay? And whilst Jeter and A-Rod seem gay, they both are married. Though being linked to Madonna is almost as bad as being gayQuote:
Originally Posted by metsguy234
Jeter isn't married, and A-Rod's getting divorced.
Okay, let's cut it out with the baseless and immature homosexual accusations.
John Amechi is gay.
So, basically the only reason that you don't like him is because he plays for the Yankees then?
Hey, that's cool. You can hate any player for any reason you want [I hate the Mets for obvious reasons ;)]. What you can't do is claim that the player is bad at what they do simply because of that.
I hate Barry Bonds what he represents as the poster boy for the steroid era, and I hate him for breaking such an important record (two in fact, though McGwire tainted the SSHRR first) that is now tainted because of it.
That doesn't stop me from admitting that with or without steroids he was one **** of a player, was arguably the best hitter of my generation, and a sure fire HOFer with or without steroids. I'd even go so far as to say that it would be nice to have his bat (not glove) in LF for the Braves this year (yeah, I did just vomit a little in my mouth).
Mariano Rivera's track record speaks for itself. You have to say that based on his stats he is one of the greatest closers of all time. You don't have to like him and you can call him a bad person (as unwarranted as that is), but what you have to do is accept the reality that he is a good baseball player.
I'm not gay, because I like girls. Jeter and A-Rod are gay because they like each other. I don't have a problem with them being gay, I'm just making it known.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
A-Rod is getting divorsed
As for Tek in the AS game?
I am actually happy about it. It replaces Cal in 2001* as the least deserving AS selection in history :).
In all seriousness, it's ridiculous that a .219 hitter can be in a game that is supposed to represent the very best of the sport and a game that is used to decide home field advantage in the WS.
If you want Tek in the game, fine, make the AS game a meaningless exhibition like it should be.
*(I do think he deserved it based on what he had accomplished in his career. He did get the MVP, too.)
Home field advantage in the WS isn't even that big of a deal...
It very well could be.Quote:
Originally Posted by metsguy234
Just look at the home/road splits of some of the best teams this year..
"I don't have a problem with them being gay, I'm just making it known."
Well, since you are trying to disparage both A-Rod and Jeter, and using the baseless assumption that they are homosexual to do so, then yes, you do have a problem with homosexuality.
If you truly didn't have a problem with homosexuality and considered it be a non issue, what you are doing would be akin with me saying:
"Yeah, well Barry Bonds eats cauliflower, and doesn't like asparagus."
[QUOTE]As for Tek in the AS game?
I am actually happy about it. It replaces Cal in 2001* as the least deserving AS selection in history :).
In all seriousness, it's ridiculous that a .219 hitter can be in a game that is supposed to represent the very best of the sport and a game that is used to decide home field advantage in the WS.
If you want Tek in the game, fine, make the AS game a meaningless exhibition like it should be.
QUOTE]
Yes. Because clearly the only thing that matters in picking a deserving All-Star is a guy's batting average. Especially at such an offensive minded position as catcher. He got the third most votes at catcher, I don't mind seeing him there.
He's sucked at every offensive stat there is.Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
He got the third most votes at catcher, sure. Bill Hall got the fourth most votes at 3B in the NL, just a tad behind David Wright. The voting just tells which teams fans came out the strongest, really.
But Varitek adds leadership to the team. He also adds defense and a bit of offense.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
I don't really think "leadership" amounts to much for a single game of the game's best. Defense, I guess, offense...no.Quote:
Originally Posted by metsguy234
So what would make you guys happy? Should All-Stars be based on VORP? Pick the highest rated player at each position. That's your All-Star?
Should there be an electoral college like the presidency so that players in big markets can't overwhelm the voting?
Vtek is one of the most important players on one of the best teams this season. I'd say he's an asset to any team that he's on.
IMO,the players who can grow the longest mustaches should be All-Stars. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
I really don't think that's fair for Clayton Kershaw...he's only 20 he doesn't have a chance against the over-testosteroned Giambi's of the world.
In a strange twist ,Quote:
Originally Posted by metsguy234
the early 70's Oakland A's showed up to play the national league all stars....
There's many different opinions on what consitutes an All-Star. Personally, I prefer that the All Star Game be for the best players in the first half of the season. Jason Varitek is nowhere near the top 3 catchers in the AL this year, by any metric. Some people, like Joe Sheehan of Baseball Prospectus, think the All Star Game is for the game's BEST players, and first-half performance shouldn't have as much weight as is normally given. He doesn't think "first half wonders" like Ryan Ludwick should make the All Star Team unless they have some track record to back it up. I don't agree with that, I'm just describing some of the other "views."Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
Whether or not he's one of the most important is irrelevent to me when it comes to picking All Stars. To me, it's about who is BEST, and importance does not factor into who is best.Quote:
Vtek is one of the most important players on one of the best teams this season. I'd say he's an asset to any team that he's on.
I'd probably go with just 2 catchers on the team (Mauer and Navarro) but if I had to pick a third, I'd go with A.J. Pierzynski this year.
In related news, this guy lists his picks for the 10 worst All Star selections of the last 10 years. Varitek is #1 on his list.
I agree with houston about how varitek has not performed well, but really, baseball is not all #'s. Houston, don't you have any love for the game other than numbers and stats? I think we just need to except that the all-star game is a popularity show, and that VTek is popular. And he was voted by teh players, so they must think he is deserving, and they must want him on the team. The players aren't just toys, they are people too. Leadership is very important, and could make the difference in the game
Fililok, I could go into detailed statistical detail as to why Tek shouldn't be an all star, but I figured the fact that a .219 average is so ridiculously low for what is supposedly the third best catcher in the AL that I didn't have to go into greater detail, but I will.
Tek is currently hitting a robust .218/.300/.358 7HR with a 73 OPS+.
Here is a comparison to AL catchers: [in AVG/OBP/SLG HR OPS+ form in order of OPS+]
Gerald Laird: .306/.360/.437 4HR 114 OPS+
Jorge Posada: .280/.358/.441 3HR 114 OPS+
AJ Pierzynski: .296/.333/.442 7HR 104 OPS+
Greg Zaun: .252/.349/.387 5HR 99 OPS +
Ivan Rodriguez: .290/.331/.405 3HR 97 OPS+
Kurt Suzuki: .278/.339/.361 3HR 95 OPS+
John Buck: .244/.320/.361 3HR 82 OPS+
Ramon Hernandez: .246/.288/.385 7HR 79 OPS+
Victor Martinez: .278/.332/.333 0HR 78 OPS+
Jeff Mathis: .220/.298/.355 5HR 75 OPS+
Kenji Johjima: .220/.260/.304 3HR 55 OPS+
I put in bold the only people I would Tek in over (with Hernandez and Martinez a close call).
That's 9 (or possibly 7) catchers who are having better years and who should be chosen before Tek. Tek got in cause he is a likable guy and because of a reputation.
If this was a meaningless game, or the all "Good Guy" team, then sure, put him in.
Since it isn't, it's a disgrace that he made the team. Period.
Ken Harvey was not terrible, so I don't see why he is on the list. They have been plenty worse. As for AJ Perzynski, I doubt he would get voted by the players, because he is not well likedQuote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Quote:
Originally Posted by free2131
Victor Martinez has not played enough this year to show if he should be in
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
I'd agree with this if the All Star Game wasn't used so heavily in Hall of Fame cases AND if it didn't have meaning. As it stands, it's more than just an exhibition game. It's a game with meaning that is treated like a popularity contest. If it's going to be a popularity contest, get rid of the meaning of it and go back to when it was solely an exhibition game.Quote:
I think we just need to except that the all-star game is a popularity show, and that VTek is popular.
This article goes into great detail about the issues with the All Star selection process, but it's subscriber-only, but here's a snippet:Quote:
And he was voted by teh players, so they must think he is deserving, and they must want him on the team.
Quote:
The skills required to be one of the very best baseball players in the world have very little to do with the skills required to evaluate the performance and the value of baseball players. I might even argue that the ability to do the former makes you less likely to be able to do the latter. Regardless of how much playing experience is valued by people hiring within the game, by the media that covers the game, and by a lot of fans, all of the evidence we have at our disposal indicates that players by and large do not understand what drives run scoring and run prevention, and are therefore ill-suited to grading the work of their peers.
This should not be a controversial statement. Baseball players are not selected for their ability to understand the game at a macro level, but their ability to play it on a micro level. Nate Silver can’t do what Derek Jeter can do, and Jeter’s skills are more valuable and more easily identified, but Jeter can’t do what Silver can do, and Silver’s skills are valuable, tangible and important to the understanding of baseball and the effective evaluation of baseball players. Jeter is better at being an All-Star; Silver is better at choosing the players who should join him. All it takes is one look at the NL All-Star roster to get that. Albert Pujols, who is no worse than the third-best player in baseball, has needed managers’ selections to make the team in each of the past two seasons. Johan Santana, a top-five starter in the NL this season and by any standard one of the three or four best in the game, isn’t on the team this year. The players are screwing up the process, just as they screwed up the Veterans Committee process.
I know, which is the joke of it. If it's going to be a game for the fans to see their favorite players and the players to vote for the guys they like, than it shouldn't be given all the meaning that it is given.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
I am with you in that players who perform well should be selected to play. But as long as teh vote exists, nothing will change. At least Joe Morgan does not decide the rosters with Dusty baker managing them,.
The game is all-star game, not best-player game. Jeeze.