HORRIBLE All Star Rosters

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rogue9

Santana imo does not really have all star numbers this year.

---

Look beyond wins and losses.

metsguy234: That list justs proves how astonishingly biased you are. Any list of future Hall of Famers that doesn't include Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera doesn't deserve much credit.

And how in the world can you say those young players will probably make the Hall of Fame? Most have only a couple years of playing time under their belt. It's entirely too early to talk about the HOF cases of any of those guys except Johan Santana and Albert Pujols. I mean...Homer Bailey? :confused:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Look beyond wins and losses.

metsguy234: That list justs proves how astonishingly biased you are. Any list of future Hall of Famers that doesn't include Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera doesn't deserve much credit.

And how in the world can you say those young players will probably make the Hall of Fame? Most have only a couple years of playing time under their belt. It's entirely too early to talk about the HOF cases of any of those guys except Johan Santana and Albert Pujols. I mean...Homer Bailey? :confused:

---

How is it biased? It includes at least 20-25 teams (including now, the Royals, Giants, and Orioles)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by metsguy234

How is it biased? It includes at least 20-25 teams (including now, the Royals, Giants, and Orioles)

---

Where's Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera? It's no secret that you hate the Yankees, and those two players should easily be in any conversation about future Hall of Famers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Where's Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera? It's no secret that you hate the Yankees, and those two players should easily be in any conversation about future Hall of Famers.

---

Jeter=way overrated, sissy player, who has some sort of pantheon of evil Yankee fans who defend him
Rivera= mediocre closer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by metsguy234

Jeter=way overrated, sissy player, who has some sort of pantheon of evil Yankee fans who defend him
Rivera= mediocre closer

---

See, that just utterly proves how incredibly biased you are to the point that it's not even worth taking your opinions on such matters into account.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Where's Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera? It's no secret that you hate the Yankees, and those two players should easily be in any conversation about future Hall of Famers.

---

Let's not forget A-Rod.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by koolzach1

Let's not forget A-Rod.

---

LOL. I can't believe I missed that.

Any list of future Hall of Famers that doesn't include A-Rod should automatically be discounted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by metsguy234

Here is my list of active or recently retired players who should be or will eventually be in the hall of fame.

Manny Ramirez
David Ortiz
Ken Griffey Jr.
Chipper Jones
Sammy Sosa
Rickey Henderson
Robin Ventura
Curt Schilling
Randy Johnson
Trevor Hoffman
Billy Wagner
Jim Thome
Gary Sheffield
Andruw Jones
Mike Piazza
Ichiro
Vladimir Guerrero
Jason Varitek
Greg Maddux
Tim Hudson
Tom Glavine
Ivan Rodriguez

Now I here's my list of Young Players who will probably make the HOF
David Wright
Prince Fielder
James Loney
Carlos Gomez
Matt Kemp
Hanley Ramirez
Jose Reyes
Dan Uggla
Joey Votto
Chase Utley
Albert Pujols
Ryan Howard
Dustin Pedroia
Jacoby Ellsbury
Homer Bailey
Justin Upton
B.J. Upton
Delmon Young
Carl Crawford
Johan Santana
Francisco Rodriguez
Brian Roberts
Vernon Wells
Roy Halladay
Grady Sizemore
Fausto Carmona
Tim Lincecum
Matt Cain
Billy Butler (heard he was pretty good)

That's all I can think of for now...

---

Those are the only ones that I can agree with. A COUPLE of the others may eventually get in, but they need a few more years of work. As far as the young players go... Ya cannot predict their careers a decade or more from now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by metsguy234

Jeter=way overrated, sissy player, who has some sort of pantheon of evil Yankee fans who defend him
Rivera= mediocre closer

---

Wow, that's...that's just retarded, dude.

In your world, who registers as a GOOD closer???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Look beyond wins and losses.

---

You're right. His numbers have significantly improved since last I looked at them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arctic Blast

Wow, that's...that's just retarded, dude.

In your world, who registers as a GOOD closer???

---

Billy Wagner = Hall of Famer

Manny Ramirez
David Ortiz
Ken Griffey Jr.
Chipper Jones
Sammy Sosa
Rickey Henderson
Robin Ventura
Curt Schilling
Randy Johnson
Trevor Hoffman
Billy Wagner
Jim Thome
Gary Sheffield
Andruw Jones
Mike Piazza
Ichiro
Vladimir Guerrero
Jason Varitek
Greg Maddux
Tim Hudson
Tom Glavine
Ivan Rodriguez


Those are the guys I'd put in from that list, although Ventura has better numbers than I thought and I'd consider him. Andruw Jones, no way. Varitek, no way.

Ortiz, Hudson, Vlad, Ichiro, and Wagner, possible, but depends on the rest of their career.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Billy Wagner = Hall of Famer

---

Psh... According to that incredibly bias, Yankee hating, Mets/Red Sawx fan. Wagner doesn't even have 400 saves yet, and only has a couple of very good years left.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Billy Wagner = Hall of Famer

---

Yeah...I mean, Wagner has been a really, really good closer for his career, no argument of that, but there is no way he's above Rivera for his career. That's just nuts.

As for metsguy's HoF list, I pretty much agree with koolzach's picks off of it, but I would add Chipper Jones and Ichiro (MLB is looking to always increase their market share and visibility in Japan, and he's the first legit star to come from Japan...I think it's all but a slam dunk). Schilling and Ventura are both right on the bubble, and I could see it going either way.

To metsguy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKjxFJfcrcA


and...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDcj7...eature=related

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Manny Ramirez
David Ortiz
Ken Griffey Jr.
Chipper Jones
Sammy Sosa
Rickey Henderson
Robin Ventura
Curt Schilling
Randy Johnson
Trevor Hoffman
Billy Wagner
Jim Thome
Gary Sheffield
Andruw Jones
Mike Piazza
Ichiro
Vladimir Guerrero
Jason Varitek
Greg Maddux
Tim Hudson
Tom Glavine
Ivan Rodriguez


Those are the guys I'd put in from that list, although Ventura has better numbers than I thought and I'd consider him. Andruw Jones, no way. Varitek, no way.

Ortiz, Hudson, Vlad, Ichiro, and Wagner, possible, but depends on the rest of their career.

---

I think that Thome needs a couple more solid seasons, and then I'd say he is Hall worthy. Ortiz was a .280, .230, .270 hitter before joining the Red Sox, but they were great seasons. I think he needs at least 4-5 more very good seasons before he is Hall worthy, and at this point, I am not sure if he has that in him. Vlad, on the other hand, needs another very good 4 seasons at least, also. Ichiro needs another good 3-4 seasons before I'd put him in there... but just think if he had started his MLB career in his early 20's, how great of a resume', he'd have. I think that Wagner needs another very good 35+ save, low-mid 2's ERA before I'd consider him worthy of the Hall.

A lot of these players would certainly make a 'Hall of Very Good', but just not Hall of Fame. Varitek, would make a Hall of Mediocrity. In all honesty, Varitek was a top 3 catcher in a stretch of about 3 years or so, but the rest of his career has been very average. Andruw Jones, IMO was well on his way to making the HOF, but the last couple of years have been SOOOO brutal, I have to wonder if he will ever recover.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KowboyKoop

To metsguy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKjxFJfcrcA


and...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDcj7...eature=related

---

Lol, love it. Billy Madison was such a great movie.

If I were the managers, these would be your All Stars:

NL
Catcher: Geovany Soto (CHC)
First Base: Lance Berkman (HOU)
Second Base Chase Utley (PHI)
Shortstop:Hanley Ramirez (FLA)
Third Base: David Wright (NYM)
Outfield: Kosuke Fukudome (CHC)
Oufield: Ken Griffey Jr. (CIN)
Outfield: Carlos Beltran (NYM)
Pitcher: Tim Lincecum (SFG)
Pitcher: Johan Santana (NYM)
Pitcher: Jake Peavy (SDP)
Pitcher: Brandon Webb (ARI)
Pitcher: Dan Haren (ARI)
Pitcher: Edinson Volquez (CIN)
Pitcher: Chad Cordero (WAS)
Pitcher: Billy Wagner (NYM)
Pitcher: Takashi Saito (LAD)
Pitcher: Jose Valverde (HOU)
Pitcher: Chris Young (SDP)
Pitcher: Kyle Lohse (STL)
Bench: Chipper Jones (ATL)
Bench: Matt Holliday (COL)
Bench: Alfonso Soriano(CHC)
Bench: Prince Fielder (MIL)
Bench: Albert Pujols (STL)
Bench: Brian McCann (ATL)
Bench: Jason Bay (PIT)
Bench: Jose Reyes (NYM)
Bench: Dan Uggla (FLA)
Bench: Jimmy Rollins (PHI)
Bench: Adam Dunn (CIN)

AL
DH: David Ortiz(BOS)
C:Joe Mauer (MIN)
1B:Kevin Youkilis (BOS)
2B: Dustin Pedroia (BOS)
SS: Michael Young (TEX)
3B: Alex Rodriguez (NYY)
OF: Josh Hamilton (TEX)
OF: Vlad Guerrero (LAA)
OF: Ichiro (SEA)
Pitcher:C.C. Sabathia (CLE)
Pitcher: Roy Halladay (TOR)
Pitcher: Mike Mussina (NYY)
Pitcher: Cliff Lee (CLE)
Pitcher: Ervin Santana (LAA)
Pitcher: John Lackey (LAA)
Pitcher: Justin Duscherer (OAK)
Pitcher: Scott Kazmir (TB)
Pitcher: Mariano Rivera (NYY)
Pitcher: Jon Papelbon (BOS)
Pitcher: Francisco Rodriguez (LAA)
Pitcher: Troy Percival (TB)
Bench: Brian Roberts(BAL)
Bench: Jose Guillen (KCR)
Bench: Ivan Rodriguez (DET)
Bench: Victor Martinez (CLE)
Bench: Jermaine Dye (CHW)
Bench: Derek Jeter (NYY)
Bench: Justin Morneau (MIN)
Bench: Jason Varitek (BOS)
Bench: Carlos Guillen (DET)
Bench: Evan Longoria (TB)
Bench: Manny Ramirez (BOS)

I do like the Mike Mussina pick... You surprised me, with that one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arctic Blast

Wow, that's...that's just retarded, dude.

In your world, who registers as a GOOD closer???

---

Good closer: Trevor Hoffman, Dennis Eckersley, Lee Smith,Billy Wagner, Francisco Rodriguez, Hoyt Wilhelm

Bad closer: Mariano Rivera, Braden Looper

I don't get why you hate Dioner Navarro and love Tek. Let's take a look at their numbers.

Navarro: .318/.370/.435 4 homers, 33 ribbies 118 OPS+
Varitek: .219/.301/.360 7 homers, 27 ribbies 73 OPS+
So Navarro has an OBP higher than Tek's slugging percentage, but Tek is better?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EP Hotties

I don't get why you hate Dioner Navarro and love Tek. Let's take a look at their numbers.

Navarro: .318/.370/.435 4 homers, 33 ribbies 118 OPS+
Varitek: .219/.301/.360 7 homers, 27 ribbies 73 OPS+
So Navarro has an OBP higher than Tek's slugging percentage, but Tek is better?

---

1) Varitek has more HR

2) Varitek leads in all the intangible categories, as captain he helps his team in ways that cant be measured.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by metsguy234

Good closer: Trevor Hoffman, Dennis Eckersley, Lee Smith,Billy Wagner, Francisco Rodriguez, Hoyt Wilhelm

Bad closer: Mariano Rivera, Braden Looper

---

And now the big question...WHY is Rivera a bad closer?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by metsguy234

Good closer: Trevor Hoffman, Dennis Eckersley, Lee Smith,Billy Wagner, Francisco Rodriguez, Hoyt Wilhelm

Bad closer: Mariano Rivera, Braden Looper

---

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Ok ok, I am so sorry to ask, but... Do you take the short bus to school? (No offense, if you actually do)

An example of a bad closer is Mo Rivera? LOL! Have you ever seen his career numbers. No, never mind, I am not even gonna try and convince you; if you haven't realized that Mo is the best after a decade of dominance, then you either, are an 'Irrational Yankee Hater', Retahded, or both.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by metsguy234

1) Varitek has more HR

2) Varitek leads in all the intangible categories, as captain he helps his team in ways that cant be measured.

---

Yeah, like yesterday when the "captain" struck out with runners in scoring position against a "bad" closer in Mariano Rivera... LOL.

looper hasnt been a closer since 2003

Well, IMO, being a long-term good guy and team captain with decent to good stats, several all-star appearences, and a couple of rings to boot makes you a HOF.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DarthJaker

looper hasnt been a closer since 2003

---

I know, but when he was the Mets' closer he wasn't very good...

Let me tell you a story:

One time this magical closer came in to pitch the 9th for his team against their hated rivals. He had a 2-1 lead with the bases loaded and 0 outs. He ended up getting out with out giving up a run. One of those outs was against a "Hall-Of-Famer".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by koolzach1

Yeah, like yesterday when the "captain" struck out with runners in scoring position against a "bad" closer in Mariano Rivera... LOL.

---

You ruined my story :(

You kids are crazy... Varitek a HOF'er... psh...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by metsguy234

Good closer: Trevor Hoffman, Dennis Eckersley, Lee Smith,Billy Wagner, Francisco Rodriguez, Hoyt Wilhelm

Bad closer: Mariano Rivera, Braden Looper

---

LOL. LOL.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by metsguy234

1) Varitek has more HR

---

There's much more to offense than home runs. Navarro beats Varitek by 70 points of OBP. That can't be made up for by 3 home runs. It's not even close. Navarro has been better than Varitek this year by a gigantic margin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by metsguy234

2) Varitek leads in all the intangible categories, as captain he helps his team in ways that cant be measured.

---

Since they are, by definition, not able to be measured, you cannot say that Varitek "leads" in them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by metsguy234

Well, IMO, being a long-term good guy and team captain with decent to good stats, several all-star appearences, and a couple of rings to boot makes you a HOF.

---

.....Congratulations, you just described Derek Jeter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by metsguy234

I know, but when he was the Mets' closer he wasn't very good...

---

Braden Looper with the Mets: 6-12, 142.2 IP, 38 BB, 87 K, 131 ERA+, 57 SV

Mariano Rivera's worst season, besides his rookie year: 3-4, 71.1 IP, 12 BB, 74 K, 142 ERA+, 30 SV

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

.....Congratulations, you just described Derek Jeter.

---

Derek Jeter isn't a "good guy" though. If you replaced the "u" in guy with an "a", and dropped the word "good", maybe I'd agree with you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by metsguy234

Derek Jeter isn't a "good guy" though. If you replaced the "u" in guy with an "a", and dropped the word "good", maybe I'd agree with you.

---

I don't think that Jeter is gay, but maybe Jonathan Papelbon...

http://66.79.163.197/_images/article...ncrotchyp6.jpg

http://www.beloblog.com/ProJo_Blogs/...papelbon03.JPG

I found this as damning evidence :p

Jeter and A-Rod make love to each other in between double headers.

Billy Wagner SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ON THE ALL STAR TEAM.

He just gave up a 2-run HR to Jayson Freakin' Worth in the bottom of the 9th and the Phillies tied the game. The Mets should trade him.

He gave up one homer and he should be damned to ****? Spoken like a true New Yorker, metsguy!

C.C is now on the Brewers so if he made the all star game he would be an NL All star maybe i should start another thread

First of all, so what if A-Rod and Jeter made love to each other? Is there something wrong with being a homosexual?

Secondly, please explain what makes Rivera a bad closer. In detail.

BTW, any attempt by you to change the subject, act in the same manner as a child by name calling, or simple make irrational claims without evidence to back it up will be taken as an admission that you are wrong and do not truly believe these things.