Hank Steinbrenner is the biggest...uh...kitty...I've ever seen

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Originally Posted by dickay

Good analogy, so all baseball players should be able to throw 95MPH with great breaking pitches that nibble corners.

It works both ways you see. Fact is, pitchers have to spend more time perfecting their craft which is why even NL pitchers do poorly at the plate. They now make millions of dollars, and fans should get to see Chin Mein Wang pitch and not some third rate bum because Wang got hurt doing something he really shouldn't have to do any longer.

I really don't see a valid argument, and its funny you touch on the production piece and leave the piece of my quote regarding protection of the commodity out. Way to pick arguments and try to divert the discussion. You can't argue 'tradition, its how the game was meant to be played' because you all have been citing old rules that are no longer in existince proving the game is no longer played how it was 'meant to be.

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Ok...

Occasionally a pitcher will get injured running the bases or swinging a bat. This is a fairly rare occurence, correct? Most pitcher injuries are pitching related, correct? So, actually, the best way to make sure we don't have to watch some "third rate bum" would be to decrease the number of injuries caused by pitching.

I would suggest the DH rule is contrary to this. With the extra hitter in the lineup the pitcher is under more stress and is more likely to throw more pitches. The easy out that the pitcher at bat provides prevents wear and tear on the pitcher who is on the mound.

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I would suggest the DH rule is contrary to this. With the extra hitter in the lineup the pitcher is under more stress and is more likely to throw more pitches. The easy out that the pitcher at bat provides prevents wear and tear on the pitcher who is on the mound.

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I'm glad you bring this up. I agree that the pitcher is under more stress which is one of the main reasons I feel the AL has a large advantage in WS play. The AL DH's are much better than the NL DH's during those games, which gives the AL a bigger advantage.

Now, as for your argument the pitchers throw more pitches...that is not factual. Its a nice try, but not factual. Teams have a pretty strict pitch count and on rare occassion does pitchers throw much over that. Yes, you could say that they reach that pitch count earlier and the team must go into the bullpen earlier....that would be factual. But that doesn't contribute to more injuries.

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Occasionally a pitcher will get injured running the bases or swinging a bat. This is a fairly rare occurence, correct? Most pitcher injuries are pitching related, correct? So, actually, the best way to make sure we don't have to watch some "third rate bum" would be to decrease the number of injuries caused by pitching.

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Which is why MLB teams have such strict pitch counts nowadays. Again trying to preserve their commodities. A pitcher getting hurt pitching is easier stomached than a pitcher hurt doing something he really doesn't need to be doing, swinging a bat & running the bases.

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Originally Posted by dickay

But that doesn't contribute to more injuries.

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Would you care to provide some evidence for this statement. Not that I doubt that you're an intelligent person but just because you proclaim something to be true doesn't prove it to me. I would think that over the course of a season or a career, repeatedly throwing more pitches would have a huge effect on a pitchers health.

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Originally Posted by dickay

Which is why MLB teams have such strict pitch counts nowadays. Again trying to preserve their commodities. A pitcher getting hurt pitching is easier stomached than a pitcher hurt doing something he really doesn't need to be doing, swinging a bat & running the bases.

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This is the gist of the argument. I think that he really does need to be doing it. An injury suffered during a baseball game is an injury suffered during a baseball game. And I'll stomach it. When a dude cuts his hand on a glass at a bar before a playoff game, that's a big problem. When a pitcher gets hurt trying to score a run or get a hit, trying to help his team win, that's just part of the game.

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Would you care to provide some evidence for this statement. Not that I doubt that you're an intelligent person but just because you proclaim something to be true doesn't prove it to me. I would think that over the course of a season or a career, repeatedly throwing more pitches would have a huge effect on a pitchers health.

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Huh?? You're the one saying that the pitchers have to throw more, i'm saying they don't. They throw to a pitch count which is as low as its ever been in the history of the game. You provide evidence that AL pitchers are throwing MORE pitches since the DH has been implemented.

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This is the gist of the argument. I think that he really does need to be doing it. An injury suffered during a baseball game is an injury suffered during a baseball game. And I'll stomach it. When a dude cuts his hand on a glass at a bar before a playoff game, that's a big problem. When a pitcher gets hurt trying to score a run or get a hit, trying to help his team win, that's just part of the game.

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But there's no need for him to be swinging a bat or running the bases. That is the gist of the argument. These guys now 'specialize' more than ever throwing a baseball and are paid millions for it. Its laughable how even NL pitchers at times will go to the plate and just stand there and do nothing so they don't risk injury swinging the bat. Its a joke. Its like making a QB play both ways in football. Its unnecessary....but still football. Yea yea, I know nobody now plays both ways but when they did, in most cases the QB didn't have to. Even the dopey young NFL recognized the need to protect their talent.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

I've never even heard the "it's bad because pitchers risk getting hurt" line until a star pitcher on a team with a whiney owner got hurt.

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yet again
BINGO!!!

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Originally Posted by dickay

Huh?? You're the one saying that the pitchers have to throw more, i'm saying they don't. They throw to a pitch count which is as low as its ever been in the history of the game. You provide evidence that AL pitchers are throwing MORE pitches since the DH has been implemented.

But there's no need for him to be swinging a bat or running the bases. That is the gist of the argument. These guys now 'specialize' more than ever throwing a baseball and are paid millions for it. Its laughable how even NL pitchers at times will go to the plate and just stand there and do nothing so they don't risk injury swinging the bat. Its a joke. Its like making a QB play both ways in football. Its unnecessary....but still football. Yea yea, I know nobody now plays both ways but when they did, in most cases the QB didn't have to. Even the dopey young NFL recognized the need to protect their talent.

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I've spent a half hour trying to find it...maybe Houston or Ohms or one of those braniacs can.

I think the pitchers that "stand there and do nothing" are not actually trying to avoid injury, but are more likely trying to avoid a double play. Though I've not seen a pitcher "stand there and do nothing".

You know man, we're not going to solve this argument. Some people like the DH, some people hate the DH. I will say though, that this whole thing has opened my eyes to some points that I hadn't considered before and...(trying to bring myself to say it)...the DH doesn't seem quite as blasphemous as it once did.

I played baseball in high school. I wasn't really that good. I was a terrible hitter and a mediocre pitcher. And though I knew that sometimes I was going to make a complete *** of myself, I still liked to get in the box and take some swings. I wouldn't want anyone to hit for me. It was my duty to do whatever I could. Sometimes it was pitching, sometimes hitting, sometimes playing the field, sometimes coaching a base, sometimes cleaning up all the equipment after practice, whatever.

I just think if you're a baseball player, you are a baseball player. And to me, a baseball player helps his team in everyway possible. In the field, at the plate, in the dugout.

owww comon...don't stop arguin lol.

j/k...no I agree we're not going to come to any agreement. But its nice debate. As for pitchers just standing there, I've seen it many times, most notably Pedro Martinez and they specifically stated prior to the game he wouldn't swing the bat to avoid injury. He basically stood there and took pitches from the pitcher to make him throw as much as possible. This tactic is used more often though by AL during WS and interleague games as they feel the pitcher isn't used to swinging the bat so they tell him not to. Sometimes they'll have em lay a bunt, but sometimes i've seen them also tell them to be a statue.

Um isn't it a circular argument as NEITHER of your opinions will actually change the rules (unless ofcourse 1 of you is Bud Selig in disguise....*shudders at the thought*)

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Originally Posted by FRENCHREDSOX

Um isn't it a circular argument as NEITHER of your opinions will actually change the rules (unless ofcourse 1 of you is Bud Selig in disguise....*shudders at the thought*)

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not at all......if that were the case and voices were so powerless we'd all be much worse off.

Before one can convince the world, one must be able to convince an online computing gamer.

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Originally Posted by dickay

not at all......if that were the case and voices were so powerless we'd all be much worse off.

Before one can convince the world, one must be able to convince an online computing gamer.

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Funny you should say that,that was exactly what George Jr said in 2000 when they gave him the Big red button NOT to push (luckily someone hid it very quickly) :eek:

You know how many American League pitchers besides Chien-Ming Wang have landed on the disabled list because they suffered an interleague-play injury while running the bases in the past five seasons? How about none, according to Baseball Prospectus' Will Carroll. So it's time for Hank to head for the dictionary and study the definition of "freak injury," because that's what this was.

Even for a successful, established pitcher, the risk of catastrophic injury is meaningfully high throughout his career, almost certainly at least 10 percent in any given season.

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Originally Posted by dickay

I'm glad you bring this up. I agree that the pitcher is under more stress which is one of the main reasons I feel the AL has a large advantage in WS play. The AL DH's are much better than the NL DH's during those games, which gives the AL a bigger advantage.

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Much better? Only in a couple cases. Overall, it's pretty even. Most NL teams have a bench player that hits like an average DH, OR a poor-fielding hitter that they use as the DH, thus improving their defense.

Stults also pitched in with LA's revived offense. He drew a walk and had a hit-and-run single through the hole at shortstop - perfectly placed - that set up a run.

"He was great with the bat and with the arm," manager Joe Torre said.

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Originally Posted by filihok

You know how many American League pitchers besides Chien-Ming Wang have landed on the disabled list because they suffered an interleague-play injury while running the bases in the past five seasons? How about none, according to Baseball Prospectus' Will Carroll. So it's time for Hank to head for the dictionary and study the definition of "freak injury," because that's what this was.

Even for a successful, established pitcher, the risk of catastrophic injury is meaningfully high throughout his career, almost certainly at least 10 percent in any given season.

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As for the first link....I've spent way too much time looking for a site where they've listed all the pitchers who have been injured swinging a bat or running the bases. Can't find it. My point to the link is, if ONE pitcher is hurt running the bases it is too much. The little blurb doesn't mention how many have been hurt swinging the bat, and it ONLY discusses AL pitchers. How many NL pitchers have been hurt in the past five years running bases or swinging bats. Again, if its one it is too many. Why??? Well.........

The answer to why is the link you posted in paragraph two. Pitchers are ALREADY at a 'meaningfully high' risk of injury throughout their career. Why increase that risk by running bases and swinging bats, things that cause them to use muscles in ways they don't spend much time training for? Their arms get more use than any others on the team and they then are asked to try and hit 95 MPH heat? Their legs are already worked much harder than every other player than the catcher and then they're told to run bases which is something they don't do often. You see guys who run bases EVERY DAY break ankles, tear hamstrings and knees etc. etc.

Why jeopardize an already fragile and rare commodity in todays age where it just makes sense DH and have the most talent on the mound and the plate?

BTW, thanks for doing the research and helping to illustrate my point :)

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Originally Posted by dickay

As for the first link....I've spent way too much time looking for a site where they've listed all the pitchers who have been injured swinging a bat or running the bases. Can't find it. My point to the link is, if ONE pitcher is hurt running the bases it is too much. The little blurb doesn't mention how many have been hurt swinging the bat, and it ONLY discusses AL pitchers. How many NL pitchers have been hurt in the past five years running bases or swinging bats. Again, if its one it is too many. Why??? Well.........

The answer to why is the link you posted in paragraph two. Pitchers are ALREADY at a 'meaningfully high' risk of injury throughout their career. Why increase that risk by running bases and swinging bats, things that cause them to use muscles in ways they don't spend much time training for? Their arms get more use than any others on the team and they then are asked to try and hit 95 MPH heat? Their legs are already worked much harder than every other player than the catcher and then they're told to run bases which is something they don't do often. You see guys who run bases EVERY DAY break ankles, tear hamstrings and knees etc. etc.

Why jeopardize an already fragile and rare commodity in todays age where it just makes sense DH and have the most talent on the mound and the plate.

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Pitchers are more likely to get hurt pitching than hitting or running the bases. The extra risk incured by pitchers batting is minimal. If you really want to protect your star pitchers from injury, make them batters.

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Originally Posted by filihok

Pitchers are more likely to get hurt pitching than hitting or running the bases. The extra risk incured by pitchers batting is minimal. If you really want to protect your star pitchers from injury, make them batters.

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cmon now, if we're going to debate you have to be realistic. Of course the chances of getting hurt pitching is more likely, as you posted it is 'meaningfully high'. The extra risk incured batting and running is minimal?? These guys make millions of dollars and are RARE COMMODITIES (which is why you don't make them batters, cmon now even you can admit that wasn't a realistic statement, oh and batters get injured often swinging bats and running bases).

Whether or not its only a 'minimal' risk enhancement is definetly debateble but not important. You're talking to a risk manager here. If I exposed a valuable rare commodity of my clients to additional unnecessary risk regardless of how minimal i'm playing with fire and likely to be shitcanned.

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Originally Posted by dickay

cmon now, if we're going to debate you have to be realistic. Of course the chances of getting hurt pitching is more likely, as you posted it is 'meaningfully high'. The extra risk incured batting and running is minimal??

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How is it unrealistic? The only evidence I have is Will Carroll's statement saying Wang is the only pitcher injured running the bases this year. I will accept that as fact as I have to evidence other wise. One out of ?thousands? that's minimal in my book.

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Originally Posted by dickay

These guys make millions of dollars and are RARE COMMODITIES (which is why you don't make them batters, cmon now even you can admit that wasn't a realistic statement, oh and batters get injured often swinging bats and running bases)

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Yes, there is an inherent risk of injury while playing baseball. What percentage of the population can play short stop at a major league level? I would argue everybody out there is a rare commodity.

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Whether or not its only a 'minimal' risk enhancement is definetly debateble but not important. You're talking to a risk manager here. If I exposed a valuable rare commodity of my clients to additional unnecessary risk regardless of how minimal i'm playing with fire and likely to be shitcanned.

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What other rule changes would you all like to see? Every now and then a line drive will hit the pitcher and injure him. Should we leave up the batting practice fences during the game to prevent this? And before you all curse me for making this statement. This happens more frequently than Wang type injuries (from my own observations-no I have no hard data-but come on...). It's easily preventable. Put a big fence around the guy. Every major league team has one.

Baseball players get injured. They get injured playing baseball. We should take steps to prevent this. Batting helmets. Banning intentional beanings. Monitoring slides. But telling players that they can't play is not an option.

Well Dickay, thanks for the links. I have read each column, and every one is speculative nonsense. General statements, just like yours are. Not one study listed anyplace. Nonetheless, it was interesting reading the vague attempts made by those with a special agends. Nothing adds to a debate like distorted stats. You have my gratitude, at least, for awakening me to these ridiculous arguments.

It is a fact that the AL has gotten the better of the NL over the past 3 years, no doubt. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the DH, from what I can see. The fact that the AL has dominated interleague play the past 3 years is due solely to the fact that the AL is a much stronger league, top to bottom, in my opinion. Lets not lose sight of the other facts:

1) Starting with the implementation of the DH in 1973, the National League dominated the all-star game (10 straight wins), and won more than half of the WS (6-4) in the first 10 years of competition. There was not, of course, interleague play, so this created a small sample of games. OK, so point 2......

2) For the first 9 years of interleague play, it was the National league that won more than 50% of the games. The Al has only begun to dominate as recently as 2005. Now, if the AL's recent domination is exclusively due to the DH....what is the excuse for the NL lead in interleague games for the first 9 years?

Answer; The DH does NOT give the AL an advantage. The current format gives the NL an overall advantage.... it's just that the NL is an inferior league, overall... just like the AL was in the 1960's and 1970's.

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Well Dickay, thanks for the links. I have read each column, and every one is speculative nonsense.

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When one goes into a discussion with a set mind & agenda, everything that differs with that mindset is going to be viewed as nonsense. Statistics can be twisted in many ways, you are correct. We'll just agree to disagree.

Why aren't all players required to pitch?

From Dickay.....

"When one goes into a discussion with a set mind & agenda, everything that differs with that mindset is going to be viewed as nonsense. Statistics can be twisted in many ways, you are correct. We'll just agree to disagree."

I do have a "set mind" on the DH... but its based on facts. You also have made up your mind already, and from what I can tell, you discard any differing opinions quickly, out of hand. No consideration for any evidence presented that does not support your opinions (key word here--opinions). I look at facts to reach a conclusion. Ok, the conclusions are somewhat based on logic and common sense as well....but the relevant facts, mainly. However, I am always open to a different view. I just want to see the logic behind the opposing view. Not just random speculative nonsense. You know, the thing that athletes, analysts, and online forum posters are so good at.

I can certainly agree to disagree. Fair enough. Have a good day then.

Why aren't all players required to play third or catcher or center field?

A baseball team has 9 players per rule 1.01.

These 9 players make up the defense and offense.

The manager places them in the defensive and offensive position (batting order) he thinks will be most conducive to helping the team win.

The Designated Hitter is in the rules as well:

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6.10
Any League may elect to use the Designated Hitter Rule.
(a) In the event of inter-league competition between clubs of Leagues using the Designated Hitter Rule and clubs of Leagues not using the Designated Hitter Rule, the rule will be used as follows:
1. In World Series or exhibition games, the rule will be used or not used as is the practice of the home team.
2. In All-Star games, the rule will only be used if both teams and both Leagues so agree.
(b) The Rule provides as follows:
A hitter may be designated to bat for the starting pitcher and allsubsequent pitchers in any game without otherwise affecting the status of the pitcher(s) in the game. A Designated Hitter for the pitcher must be selected prior to the game and must be includedin the lineup cards presented to the Umpire in Chief.
The designated hitter named in the starting lineup must come to bat at least one time, unless the opposing club changes pitchers.
It is not mandatory that a club designate a hitter for the pitcher, but failure to do so prior to the game precludes the use of a Designated Hitter for that game.
Pinch hitters for a Designated Hitter may be used. Any substitute hitter for a Designated Hitter becomes the Designated Hitter. A replaced Designated Hitter shall not re-enter the game in any capacity.
The Designated Hitter may be used defensively, continuing to bat in the same position in the batting order, but the pitcher must then bat in the place of the substituted defensive player, unless more than one substitution is made, and the manager then must designate their spots in the batting order.
A runner may be substituted for the Designated Hitter and the runner assumes the role of Designated Hitter. A Designated Hitter may not pinch run.
A Designated Hitter is “locked” into the batting order. No multiple substitutions may be made that will alter the batting rotation of the Designated Hitter.
Once the game pitcher is switched from the mound to a defensive position this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game.
Once a pinch hitter bats for any player in the batting order and then enters the game to pitch, this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game.
Once the game pitcher bats for the Designated Hitter this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game. (The game pitcher may only pinch-hit for the Designated Hitter.)
Once a Designated Hitter assumes a defensive position this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game. A substitute for the Designated Hitter need not be announced until it is the Designated Hitter’s turn to bat.

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It makes me laugh when people try to make the argument that the DH "breaks the rules."

I'm not making THAT arguement. I'm just stating my belief that baseball is your nine players against my nine players. I'll line my nine up on the field and in the batting order and see what happens.

I DON'T think baseball is "I'll line up my ten, well...nine in the field, and nine in the batting order, but one of the guys in the field, you see, he won't be in the batting order, and the one guy in the batting order, he won't be in the field. So anyway...I'll line up my nine or ten or whatever and you line up some of yours and we'll play. What's that? Why doesn't my one guy bat? Well, that's cause he's not very good. What? One of your guys can't catch? And another can't run? Well, see that's different..."

And Ohms, you never answered my question as to why doesn't everyone have to play each position.

Well, thankfully, it's not like that, because both teams are well aware of the rules and it's more like..."I'll lineup by 8 fielders and the pitcher in the field, and then my 8 fielders and a designated hitter in the lineup, and you'll do the same."

The pitcher IS a fielder. That's the entire crux of this argument.

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Originally Posted by Swampdog

From Dickay.....

"When one goes into a discussion with a set mind & agenda, everything that differs with that mindset is going to be viewed as nonsense. Statistics can be twisted in many ways, you are correct. We'll just agree to disagree."

I do have a "set mind" on the DH... but its based on facts. You also have made up your mind already, and from what I can tell, you discard any differing opinions quickly, out of hand. No consideration for any evidence presented that does not support your opinions (key word here--opinions). I look at facts to reach a conclusion. Ok, the conclusions are somewhat based on logic and common sense as well....but the relevant facts, mainly. However, I am always open to a different view. I just want to see the logic behind the opposing view. Not just random speculative nonsense. You know, the thing that athletes, analysts, and online forum posters are so good at.

I can certainly agree to disagree. Fair enough. Have a good day then.

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facts?? i've begged and pleaded for you guys to come up with facts and haven't seen one. I've found threads supporting my argument after you stated you've never seen any. You want to discard anything that doesn't support your position, and offer no supporting evidence to the contrary.

Than we're arguing semantics.

There isn't even anything to "argue." The fact of the matter is, the DH is in the rules, and is allowed, and it's still baseball. We can argue over whether or not we like the DH, but that's like arguing whether vanilla ice cream or chocolate ice cream is better.

Vanilla...rule 1.01 states...oh, never mind

Obviously MLB has done it right.

A lot of people adamantly love the DH.

A lot of people vehemently oppose the DH.

So, we get one of each. And the only way we can reconcile it when the two leagues play each other is we have to play by both leagues' rules.

Which, referring to the originial post, means Steinbrenner should have kept his mouth shut because MLB is already doing the right thing.

Which I've basically said multiple times in this thread.

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Originally Posted by filihok

The pitcher IS a fielder. That's the entire crux of this argument.

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agreed....and my argument is that the pitcher is more invaluable and prone to injury than anyone else on the field. You quoted that yourself. They use their arms and legs more than anyone on the field and are REQUIRED to spend the vast majority of their time honing a craft that has nothing to do with batting and running.

Every other position allows for ample time to bat & run, and does not require them to work specific muscles aimed to throw a baseball with consistent precision and movement at great speeds. Its an art and a science, and despite being a fielder it makes sense to protect that commodity since it is much more prone to injury doing things other than what they train for.

As a paying fan I expect to see the best talent on the field. I accept when they get hurt during the course of the game. I don't however feel that the pitcher should be put at the same risk as other fielders because they are much more prone to the injury as a pure result of the system they are placed in. I feel having someone bat & run for that pitcher is a fair trade off to ensure the best pitching talent is on the 'field' as much as humanly possible.

Thats where we disagree, and there's no getting past that apparently. I cling to the FACT that American League teams CAN hit a pitcher but choose not to. They choose to protect their commodity. It only makes sense.

If Beckett pulled a muscle swinging a bat, or broke an ankle rounding the bases I'm pretty sure many arguing the opposite would have a different story. Thats the most disturbing part of this argument. I'm not saying those arguing in here would change there opinion, but I know for certain many arguing in general would.

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Originally Posted by filihok

Obviously MLB has done it right.

A lot of people adamantly love the DH.

A lot of people vehemently oppose the DH.

So, we get one of each. And the only way we can reconcile it when the two leagues play each other is we have to play by both leagues' rules.

Which, referring to the originial post, means Steinbrenner should have kept his mouth shut because MLB is already doing the right thing.

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I agree with the initial part of this, but I see no reason why Steinbrennar can't b!tch. Maybe in time he can get enough support to change the rules, maybe he can't.......but if nobody ever complained nothing would ever change with anything. As much as I hate Steinbrennar and the Yankees, all i've stated is that I agree with his concerns.

I agree. No National League teams choose to bat the pitcher in a DH game. It would be foolish too. The DH absolutely protects the pitcher, who is the most important player in any game.

But he's a player in the game. And as a player in the game, he should field and bat. The league should do whatever they can to protect him from getting injured playing in the game. There's a big maple bat controversy going on right now. The bats are dangerous to fielders and fans. Something probably needed to be done on that yesterday. But, I-me, don't think that having your players not play is the answer. There is risk in playing the sport. L.A. has 60% of the rotation on the DL right now. And it sucks. But if you're a baseball player, you play baseball.

That's how I feel. I respect (more than I thought I would) some of the arguments of the DHers, but they don't change my mind.

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Originally Posted by dickay

Every other position allows for ample time to bat & run, and does not require them to work specific muscles aimed to throw a baseball with consistent precision and movement at great speeds. Its an art and a science, and despite being a fielder it makes sense to protect that commodity since it is much more prone to injury doing things other than what they train for.

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I think catcher's would take issue with this, as there crouching and throwing requires a great deal of stress to specific muscles, and they are also involved in every play. And I don't know that any catcher that ever played the game game didn't have plenty of injuries. They're like the walking wounded. Thus, taken to its next logical step, we'll have DH's for catchers. Something I posited about previously.

And then, why stop there? Why NOT an offensive and defensive just like football. After all, years ago, football only had 11 players, and they played both ways.

EDIT: And, as I posted before. This may be efficient, and it may even end up being popular, but it just ain't baseball.

And it's never going to happen, nor has anybody at all seriously suggested it, so I don't see the point in continually bringing it up.

Who's to say it's never going to happen?

I bet if you asked some of the real old timers they would find it ludicris that pitchers wouldn't have to bat for themselves.

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Originally Posted by OldFatGuy

I think catcher's would take issue with this, as there crouching and throwing requires a great deal of stress to specific muscles, and they are also involved in every play. And I don't know that any catcher that ever played the game game didn't have plenty of injuries. They're like the walking wounded. Thus, taken to its next logical step, we'll have DH's for catchers. Something I posited about previously.

And then, why stop there? Why NOT an offensive and defensive just like football. After all, years ago, football only had 11 players, and they played both ways.

EDIT: And, as I posted before. This may be efficient, and it may even end up being popular, but it just ain't baseball.

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This was actually covered earlier. I see where your going, and as a former high school catcher myself am sympathetic. Catchers take a beating no doubt, but also are expected to and readily practice the offensive side of their game. They may also in fact be a RARER commodity than pitchers which is an interesting debatable point and attack on my position that you left out.

However, there has to be a balance with everything. As mentioned they do train muscles and practice specifically towards hitting and running bases. The environment and culture developed with the inclusion of the DH years in the AL ago rendors it easy to leave it at just pitchers. Going to extremes as you discuss is something nobody is talking about and common sense would reign supreme should those arguments every arise which I think we all agree never would anyhow.

Now one could say, dickay.....easy answer. Teams could just mandate that pitchers begin training to hit & run the bases. That comes at a sacrifice however of their efforts to hone their craft which is something so very few can do consistently. It also subjects them to even more possibility for injury.....and something which has already been linked, pitchers are already at a very high succeptability level for injury.

When somebody even remotely seriously suggests anything even remotely like these extreme situations, get back to me.

Pitchers are clearly different from other position players, even catchers. I have no facts on this, but I'd say that pitchers need to spend a lot more time on training their pitching than position players do their fielding.