Hank Steinbrenner is the biggest...uh...kitty...I've ever seen

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Originally Posted by filihok

Of course I'd rather have Big Papi hitting instead of Clayton Kershaw in terms of getting offensive production. I'd also rather have Big Papi hitting instead of Lugo, VTek, Crisp...doesn't mean it's a good rule.

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whats not good about it? get more offensive production and protect your commodity. rather than b!tch about it, explain what rationale other than 'tradition' makes it not a good idea. Lack of tradition in fact was something that caused this, because if interleague play wasnt' there he wouldn't have been running the bases. Again, the tradition of MLB is that things change. Hopefully for the better, and every MLB team would take a DH if offered, it has been successful, it avoids injury......I think its been for the better.

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Originally Posted by dickay

OMG, say it isn't so....an NL pitcher hurt running the bases?? Impossible!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...072402336.html

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do me a favor, get all the SP injuries (due to non pitching/fielding in the NL) and tell me which position overall has the LEAST DL appearances? I bet its pitchers. I dont know thats why im asking

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Originally Posted by dickay

and every MLB team would take a DH if offered...

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um... then why every time its voted on the NL votes no

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Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet

do me a favor, get all the SP injuries (due to non pitching/fielding in the NL) and tell me which position overall has the LEAST DL appearances? I bet its pitchers. I dont know thats why im asking

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seeing that they field and hit much less than everyday fielders and hitters...i'll agree with your assessment.

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Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet

um... then why every time its voted on the NL votes no

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Do the research son...actually during the 'first vote' the NL voted for it and the AL voted against it!! Back then however they needed both leagues to approve it.

In a future vote (mid-20th century) the NL voted 6-4 for it and needed a 7th vote to pass it but two owners were not available. One of the two was on record of being for it.

I don't know when the last time they voted for it was. I do know that the AL has the option to play a pitcher if they chose, and Billy Martin once did. I think that was the only time it's happened purposely.

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Originally Posted by dickay

Do the research son...actually during the 'first vote' the NL voted for it and the AL voted against it!! Back then however they needed both leagues to approve it.

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Um...you realize you're referring to 1928?

NL President Chub Feeney is largely responsible for keeping the DH OUT of the league in 1973. This was one of Charlie Finley's more interesting ideas. (And when the time came, he voted AGAINST it...though out of pique rather than really changing his mind.)

From Wiki:
However, momentum to implement the DH did not pick up until the pitching dominance of the late 1960’s. In 1968, Denny McLain won 31 games and Bob Gibson had a 1.12 ERA, while Carl Yastrzemski led the American League in hitting with a .301 average. After the season, the rules were changed to lower the mound from 15 to 10 inches and change the upper limit of the strike zone from the top of a batter's shoulders to his armpits. In addition, in 1969 spring training, both the American League and National League agreed to try the designated pinch hitter (DPH), but they did not agree on the implementation. Most NL teams chose not to participate. On March 6, 1969, two games utilized the new DPH rule for the very first time. Two newly formed expansion teams, the Montreal Expos and the Kansas City Royals would participate in one such game, and the New York Yankees and Washington Senators in the other. On March 26, 1969, Major League Baseball nixed the idea for the time being. Like other experimental baseball rule changes of the 1960's and 70's, the DH was embraced by Oakland A's owner Charlie O. Finley. On January 11, 1973, Finley and the other American League owners voted 8-4 to approve the designated hitter for a three-year trial run

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Originally Posted by dickay

whats not good about it? get more offensive production and protect your commodity.

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You're right. Also PED's and corked bats should be legal because they increase production.

A pitcher is a baseball player. If he's on the team and in the line-up, he should bat. That's my opinion. And the opinion of a lot of other people here.

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1901 Catchers were compelled to remain continuously under the bat.

1903 Foul strike rule was adopted by the American League.

1904 Height of the mound was limited to 15 inches higher than the level of the baselines.

1908 Pitchers were prohibited from soiling a new ball.
Shinguards were reintroduced.
The sacrifice fly rule was adopted.

1910 The cork center was added to the official baseball.

1917 Earned-run statistics and definitions were added to the rules.

1920 All freak deliveries, including the spitball, were outlawed.
The failure of a preceding runner to touch a base would not affect the status of a succeeding runner.
The batter was given credit for a home run in the last of the ninth inning if the winning run was on base when the ball was hit out of the field.
The number of runs batted in were to be included in the official score.
Frivolous ninth-inning uncontested steals in one-sided games were discarded.

1925 Pitcher was allowed to use a resin bag.
The minimum home-run distance was set at 250 feet.

1931 Sacrifice fly rule was brought back, this time with a man scoring after the catch only.
Defensive interference was changed from an offense solely by a catcher to one by a fielder as well.
No fielder could take a position in line with a batter's vision with the deliberate intent to in any way distract the batter.
Regulations referring to a batter contacting his own ball were clarified as was the area of bases awarded a batter when a defensive player threw his glove at a batted or thrown ball or in the case of spectator interference.

1953 Players were to remove their gloves from the field (in 1954) when batting and no equipment was to show on the field at any time.

1959 Regulations were set up for minimum boundaries for all new parks, 325-400-325 feet.

1968 The anti-spitball rule was rewritten and tightened up because of the wave of moistened pitches that floated plateward the prior season.

1969 The pitcher's mound was dropped five inches.
The strike zone was shrunken to the area from the armpits to the top of the batter's knees.
The save rule was added to the official rules for the first time.

1971 All major-league players were ordered to wear protective helmets.

1973 The rule on glove size and color was minutely outlined for standardization.
The American League began using designated hitter for pitchers on an experimental basis.

1974 The save rule was rewritten.
Minimum standards for individual championships were outlined.

1975 The ball was permitted to be covered with cowhide because of the shortage of horses.
Suspension for three days became mandatory if batter were to hit a fair ball with a filled, doctored or flat-surfaced bat.
The save rule was changed again.

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yes every rule ever invented was perfect right

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1877 Canvas bases 15 inches square were introduced.

Home plate was placed in the angle formed by the intersection of the first and third base lines.
The hitter was exempted from a time at bat if he walked.

1879 Player reserve clause was for the first time put into a contract.
The number of "called balls" became 9 and all balls were either strikes, balls or fouls.
The pitcher had to face a batsman before pitching to him.
A staff of umpires was first introduced.

1880 Base on balls was reduced to 8 "called balls."
The base runner was out if hit by a batted ball.
The catcher had to catch the pitch on the fly in order to register and out on a third strike.

1883 The "foul bound catch" was abolished and the pitcher could deliver a ball from above his waist.

1884 All restrictions on the delivery of a pitcher were removed.
Six "called balls" became a base on balls.
Championships were to be decided on a percentage basis.

1885 One portion of the bat could be flat (one side).
Home base could be made of marble or whitened rubber.
Chest protectors worn by catchers and umpires came into use.

1887 The pitcher's box was reduced to 4 feet by 5 1/2 feet.
Calling for high and low pitches was abolished.
Five balls became a base on balls.
Four "called strikes" were adopted for this season only.
Bases on balls were recorded as hits for this season only.
The batter was awarded first base when hit by a pitch.
Home plate was to be made of rubber only - dropping the marble type and was to be 12 inches square.
Coaches were recognized by the rules for the first time ever.

1888 Player reserve clause was written into the contracts of minor leaguers for the first time.
The base on balls exemption from a time at bat was restored.
A batsman was credited with a base hit when a runner was hit by his batted ball.

1889 Four balls became a base on balls.
A sacrifice bunt was statistically recognized.

1891 Substitutions were permitted at any point in the game.
Large padded mitts were allowed for catchers.

1893 Pitching distance increased from 50 feet to 60 feet 6 inches.
The pitching box was eliminated and a rubber slab 12 inches by 4 inches was substituted.
The pitcher was required to place his rear foot against the slab.
The rule exempting a batter from a time at bat on a sacrifice was instituted.
The rule allowing a flat side to a bat was rescinded and the requirement that the bat be round and wholly of hard wood was substituted.

1894 Foul bunts were classified as strikes.

1895 Pitching slab was enlarged to 24 inches by 6 inches.
Bats were permitted to be 2 3/4 inches in diameter and not to exceed 42 inches.
Infield-fly rule was adopted.
A held foul tip was classified as a strike.

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lets go back to 4 strikes for a strikeout as well. That will help increase productivity too.
and lets go back to

we can let them call for a high or low pitch as well

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Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet

lets go back to 4 strikes for a strikeout as well. That will help increase productivity too.
and lets go back to

we can let them call for a high or low pitch as well

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I can use your argument against your 'tradition' stance as to why the DH should be allowed...oh, you really haven't given a reason as to why the DH shouldn't be.

If pitchers should have to bat than others should have to throw 95 consistently, and nibble corners with great breaking stuff. Sure they'd get more arm injuries, but who cares??

Every position is now more specialized. Pitching is the rarest of them all. Protect it.

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Originally Posted by filihok

You're right. Also PED's and corked bats should be legal because they increase production.

A pitcher is a baseball player. If he's on the team and in the line-up, he should bat. That's my opinion. And the opinion of a lot of other people here.

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Good analogy, so all baseball players should be able to throw 95MPH with great breaking pitches that nibble corners.

It works both ways you see. Fact is, pitchers have to spend more time perfecting their craft which is why even NL pitchers do poorly at the plate. They now make millions of dollars, and fans should get to see Chin Mein Wang pitch and not some third rate bum because Wang got hurt doing something he really shouldn't have to do any longer.

I really don't see a valid argument, and its funny you touch on the production piece and leave the piece of my quote regarding protection of the commodity out. Way to pick arguments and try to divert the discussion. You can't argue 'tradition, its how the game was meant to be played' because you all have been citing old rules that are no longer in existince proving the game is no longer played how it was 'meant to be.

Can't we all just get along? If you don't like the DH, watch the NL. If you like the DH, watch the AL. If you don't give a ****, watch either league.

:)

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Can't we all just get along? If you don't like the DH, watch the NL. If you like the DH, watch the AL. If you don't give a ****, watch either league.

:)

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Agreed, until the next pitcher gets hurt unnecessarily and paying fans get stuck watching Sidney Ponson like types.

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Originally Posted by dickay

Agreed, until the next pitcher gets hurt unnecessarily and paying fans get stuck watching Sidney Ponson like types.

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I've never even heard the "it's bad because pitchers risk getting hurt" line until a star pitcher on a team with a whiney owner got hurt.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

I've never even heard the "it's bad because pitchers risk getting hurt" line until a star pitcher on a team with a whiney owner got hurt.

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i'm honest, neither did I but it makes sense to me. ;)