Hank Steinbrenner is the biggest...uh...kitty...I've ever seen

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Originally Posted by gRYFYN1

This is insane! really he's afaraid of his guys having to run, what a *****. I want to enact a rule that we can have Ellsbury run for Ortiz from now on, I mean we dont pay Ortiz to run the bases hes paid to hit the ball.

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I'm replying before i read the entire thread...but I can do that :)

If pitchers should have to run & bat, than hitters should have to throw 95MPH consistently and nibble corners while perfecting late breaking pitches that make hitters swing & miss.

Not realistic eh?? Of course not. This is a multi-billion dollar sport now, and pitchers are specialists. They are paid millions of dollars to be so. Sure running the bases and batting doesn't SEEM like much but it is not something they should do at all!! There is no need for it. They are paid to pitch and to perfect their pitching ability, and paid in high order. That specialty should be protected.

:p

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Originally Posted by RickD

Can and should are two different things....Pitchers can run and cover first base, pitchers should NOT run around the bases and hit balls....they should pitch NOT hit.

Go Yankees!

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Agree 100%...except for the go yankees part.

I'm a die hard sox fan...but earily suspect that if this was Beckett who was out for the year the sawx hipocrite fan base in here would have a different opinion.

Traditionalists crack me up. We can spend all day talking about different eras and changes to the game that makes 'tradition' an obsolete argument. Heck, when baseball begun they didn't have 9 innings, they played as long as it took for one team to score 22 runs! Times have changed quite a bit.

Back in the day, sure it made sense. The game has modernized, pitchers are much more valuable and perfect the 'art' and should be protected from meaningless at bats and base running. Fans should be able to see the stars doing what they do best, not sitting at home on the DL or worse, swinging a bat when they have no right doing so.

Yeah I know NL pitchers run the bases all the time, but fact is they get hurt doing it as well. Its not made to be a big deal because it's something they do. The AL doesn't have that situation, so this is highlighted because of it.

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Originally Posted by dickay

If pitchers should have to run & bat, than hitters should have to throw 95MPH consistently and nibble corners while perfecting late breaking pitches that make hitters swing & miss.

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Exactly! Not only that, but the defensive team in baseball should work like volleyball. With every at bat, the players should rotate positions. There's no reason why only a few guys should have to pitch, a few have to catch, etc. All of this modern day "specialization" stuff is ridiculous. :mad:

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Originally Posted by dickay

Fans should be able to see the stars doing what they do best

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Then why are fans treated to Adam Dunn in Left Field? Or Bonds for that matter? There are some pitchers who hit well - Zambrano, Willis, Micah Owings - we shouldn't eliminate the pitcher hitting part of the game just because of some 1-dimensional players.

Personally, I like seeing Wake or Dice-K at the plate. Beckett did hit in the NL for years, and he did fine. And if you missed my post, Colon just got injured swinging a bat (seriously?). So it can and has affected the Sox team as well (granted, our #5 starter, and a much shorter time period, but ah well).

I think the flaw here is that somewhere along the line all the minor league teams went DH only, as well...so pitchers like Wang don't hit, at all, from high school until midway thru an MLB season 6-8 years later, for 10 at bats. If it was something they at least had foundations in, this might not be such a serious problem.

But that's all beside the point - this wasn't even HITTING! This was RUNNING! What kind of professional athlete can't make it 90 feet?? This sort of thing has to be chalked up to unfortunate happenstance - it could've happened with him fielding the ball or getting to first. Heck, this could just be fallout from the way the weight falls on his leg with every pitch. To take one injury and blow it into NL-is-evil-for-making-pitchers-hit is a tad over the top.

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Originally Posted by Alloutwar

Then why are fans treated to Adam Dunn in Left Field? Or Bonds for that matter? There are some pitchers who hit well - Zambrano, Willis, Micah Owings - we shouldn't eliminate the pitcher hitting part of the game just because of some 1-dimensional players.

Personally, I like seeing Wake or Dice-K at the plate. Beckett did hit in the NL for years, and he did fine. And if you missed my post, Colon just got injured swinging a bat (seriously?). So it can and has affected the Sox team as well (granted, our #5 starter, and a much shorter time period, but ah well).

I think the flaw here is that somewhere along the line all the minor league teams went DH only, as well...so pitchers like Wang don't hit, at all, from high school until midway thru an MLB season 6-8 years later, for 10 at bats. If it was something they at least had foundations in, this might not be such a serious problem.

But that's all beside the point - this wasn't even HITTING! This was RUNNING! What kind of professional athlete can't make it 90 feet?? This sort of thing has to be chalked up to unfortunate happenstance - it could've happened with him fielding the ball or getting to first. Heck, this could just be fallout from the way the weight falls on his leg with every pitch. To take one injury and blow it into NL-is-evil-for-making-pitchers-hit is a tad over the top.

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The point isn't that he should be able to run it is that he shouldn't HAVE to run. There's no benefit. As for Zambrano, Owings, or whatever pitcher you want to say swings a good bat, any sane person will agree that IF IT WERE POSSIBLE PER THE RULES the team would take that pitcher out of the lineup in lieu of a DH, solely to protect him from injury. The offense, plus or minus, is a moot point. No rule in the AL says a team CANNOT ALLOW a pitcher to hit or run the bases....they just did what any sane team would, protect their investment. You wouldn't put a classic show car in a nascar race, or a short sprinter in a marathon and visa versa. These guys are bred to be perfectionists at pitching. Thats what they are paid to do, and thats what we the fans pay to see. Keep them healthy.

You hit it on the head when you said Colon for a short period is not of equal discussion as Wang through Sept. Nuff said.

Pitcher's protected? Well, there are some mighty fine shortstops in several layers of the minors that can play the position with the best of them, but can't hit a lick. Maybe we should have a DH for them too?

There you go. I can see it now. Baseball like football. The best 8 defensive guys play the field, and the best 9 offensive guys hit. Rosters expand to 40 year round, the player's association loves it (more MLB jobs), and pretty soon the specialist idea can be taken to the extreme and even those great hitters can have designated runners because they're too slow. Now rosters are 50, the MLBPA loves it.

But one thing it ain't, it ain't baseball. Baseball always was my nine guys against your nine guys. Period. You don't like the way pitchers hit?? Fine, there's no rule against having Albert Pujols pitch. There's no rule against having Barry Bonds pitch. That's just it. You pick the nine guys on your team, and you can play them anywhere you want. I pick my nine and play them where I want. You can pick a great pitcher who can't hit just like you could pitch shortstop who can't hit. But to then want to change the game from what it's always been??? Like I said, take this specialization to the extreme and it may be efficient, it may even be popular, but it ain't baseball.

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Originally Posted by Alloutwar

I think the flaw here is that somewhere along the line all the minor league teams went DH only, as well...so pitchers like Wang don't hit, at all, from high school until midway thru an MLB season 6-8 years later, for 10 at bats. If it was something they at least had foundations in, this might not be such a serious problem.

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The part in bold is incorrect. In AAA/AA, when a NL minor league team plays another NL minor league team, there is no DH. Example.
Somewhere I posted the rules for DH use in the minor leagues, but not sure where at this moment, but if I recall correctly, the home team has the option to not have the DH in the game, they just don't use it (similar to A ball and below)

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Originally Posted by Überpöster

and for all of your that say its dumb pitcher hit... i guess babe ruth would have stayed a pitcher since he never would have come to bat and seen what he could do!!!

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That would have been a shame. That could have meant a championship or two?(not really sure) less for the poor NY Wangkees.

And OldFatGuy summed it up best.

Btw Matt Cain's two homers this year were far more entertaining to me than any washed up, roided up DH's entire season of homers. So I'll pay to see a pitcher hit any day.

Speaking of homers, lol at all the poor whining Wangkee fans. Get over yourselves.

What's with all the talk about DH's being roid-monsters?

Of all the player's caught for steroids, I think none of them were regular DH's.

:confused:

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Originally Posted by OldFatGuy

But to then want to change the game from what it's always been???

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The game has changed many times from "what it's always been." Look at 19th century baseball and it's nothing at all like modern-day baseball, or pre-DH baseball in the middle of the 20th century.

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Originally Posted by OldFatGuy

Like I said, take this specialization to the extreme and it may be efficient, it may even be popular, but it ain't baseball.

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Thankfully, nobody wants to take it to the extreme.

probably, but thats just my opinion, and I mean it as nothing more.

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Originally Posted by rogue9

probably, but thats just my opinion, and I mean it as nothing more.

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It's your opinion that designated hitters all use steroids, or at least use it a lot more than other players?

no, not all. Its my suspicion that alot of the older DH's that are just rediculously bulked have probably done peds at some point or another.

Giambi comes to mind, of course he has admitted it (I think?).

Anyways, that wasn't really my point in saying that. I was trying to say that I get more entertainment seeing someone like Matt Cain get two dingers than see some washed up, bulked up guy who can't field hit 50 HRs.

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Originally Posted by rogue9

no, not all. Its my suspicion that alot of the older DH's that are just rediculously bulked have probably done peds at some point or another.

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Maybe. But a lot of the older players, DH or not, that played in the 90's probably did PEDs at some point.

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Giambi comes to mind, of course he has admitted it (I think?).

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He basically has.

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Anyways, that wasn't really my point in saying that. I was trying to say that I get more entertainment seeing someone like Matt Cain get two dingers than see some washed up, bulked up guy who can't field hit 50 HRs.

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Fair.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Maybe. But a lot of the older players, DH or not, that played in the 90's probably did PEDs at some point.

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Granted, but if they hadn't taken peds, there is a decent chance they would not be playing today. Which is basically why I threw the roided up comment in there.