The Mariners management is truly inexplicably bad.

So, in a thread a while back, I was arguing that despite all of Bill Bavasi's shortcomings as a GM, of which there are many, Brian Sabean of the Giants was worse. I've been convinced otherwise now, by reading this piece on the gigantic mistakes in the Mariners organization. It really baffles my mind that a group of men so incapable of understanding basic baseball principles can even get to the point of completely running a Major League Baseball team.

The moves Bavasi has made are nearly 100% entirely against any baseball logic, and the fact that the higher-ups in the organization like their team president completely refuse to acknowledge the huge mistakes the front office has made is disturbing.

It truly saddens me that a group of men so incompetent are allowed to run a Major League franchise.

Ah, Dave. What a nerd.

Oh, and do you still believe Washburn is good, HGM?

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Originally Posted by Coach Owens

Oh, and do you still believe Washburn is good, HGM?

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I never said he was good. I said he's been a league-average pitcher, which he has been his entire career. He's not worth the salary he's getting paid, but he has not been horrible over the course of the deal. He's been bad this year, yes.

I wrote a longer post on Bavasi and his moves on my blog.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

I never said he was good. I said he's been a league-average pitcher, which he has been his entire career. He's not worth the salary he's getting paid, but he has not been horrible over the course of the deal. He's been bad this year, yes.

I wrote a longer post on Bavasi and his moves on my blog.

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So you're arguing with Dave? You would say that he's league average even though he's really a #5 starter.

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Originally Posted by Coach Owens

So you're arguing with Dave? You would say that he's league average even though he's really a #5 starter.

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This argument again?

Look at his statistics. Tell me, how exactly is that not league average?

His K/9 that has been lower than league average his entire career. And, unlike most successful, low K/9 pitchers, Washburn's FB% is too high and his GB% is too low for him to be good. Also, his HR/9 has been higher than league average nearly his entire career, even the last three years despite pitching in one of the more pitcher-friendly parks in baseball. He's also had an extremely high LOB% almost every year which shows that any "success" that he has had has all been luck.

Luck or not, he has been a league average pitcher.

You can be a league average pitcher with below-average K-rates. You can be a league average pitcher with a high flyball rate. In fact, FB% and GB% has little correlation with how good of a pitcher you are. There are great pitchers with high flyball rates, and great pitchers with high groundball rates. So, being a flyball pitcher is really irrelevent. You can be league-average with high HR rates. Those things are useful for predicting the future. The Mariners should've seen his high LOB% and not signed him to a huge deal. His LOB% regressed, and he went from a very good year before signing to a league-average year in Seattle.

The only year of his career so far where he has been significantly below average is this year. Every other year he has either been exactly average, very slightly below, or solidly above. He obviously is not the same pitcher he was in 2001 and 2002. Every year since, except for his fluky 2005, he has been a tad below league average, which is not a horrible pitcher.

Guys I have an idea...we're all fairly successful at baseball mogul...lets just find a way to get in charge of the Mariners and we're guaranteed of doing a better job than they're doing currently

Walter, excellent idea. You have my word that if I ever am in charge of a Major League Baseball team, I will hire you for guest services or to work the concession stands.

Thanks joe! Its been my dream to watch a major league baseball game while serving hot dogs!

Washburn has been okay because he has good control. His WHIP is routinely in the mid-1.30's. League-average is around 1.40.

The guy HAS BEEN a league average pitcher, and there is no way around that. It's just a statement of fact. At this point, he very well may not be a league average pitcher anymore, but it takes more than 65 innings to say for sure.

I agree with HGM. We've seen over the last few years that teams will overpay for AVERAGE starting pitching. They're just aren't that many quality arms out there anymore

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Washburn has been okay because he has good control. His WHIP is routinely in the mid-1.30's. League-average is around 1.40.

The guy HAS BEEN a league average pitcher, and there is no way around that. It's just a statement of fact. At this point, he very well may not be a league average pitcher anymore, but it takes more than 65 innings to say for sure.

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But WHIP is not good for evaluating pitcher talent!

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Originally Posted by Coach Owens

But WHIP is not good for evaluating pitcher talent!

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It's not bad, either. It's perfectly fine for evaluating how a pitcher DID perform. It's not too good for predicting the future, because hits fluctuate, but considering Washburn has been extremely stable in the 1.35 area, it's safe to say he's about a league average pitcher when it comes to allowing baserunners.

You've yet to make any argument that Jarrod Washburn has not been a league-average pitcher. I also don't think you can, as...he HAS been a league-average pitcher.