huh? i don't see where anyone said anything as such. Take off the 3-d glasses maybe??:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by yankee hater
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huh? i don't see where anyone said anything as such. Take off the 3-d glasses maybe??:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by yankee hater
I agree, but it works both ways. I don't like somebody saying Ken Griffey definitely did not do steroids, yet then also saying Sammy Sosa did steroids, when the amount of evidence against each is exactly the same - zero. Personally, I assume players didn't use steroids unless they either tested positive or have a solid amount of evidence against them.Quote:
Originally Posted by jcbarr
However, except for a select few players, I would not state that any player definitely did not do steroids. Actually, not a select few, just one. Frank Thomas. He's the only player I'm willing to state that I definitely don't think did steroids, as he has been speaking out against steroids and FOR testing for a very long time now.
Thats fair so long as you're consistent with it. We are pretty much in agreement with where I started, that a roid cloud does hang over baseball and Griffey's house as well. How people choose to view baseball players is their own opinion, but they should attempt to be consistent with it and not play favorites. You sound to be consistent.Quote:
Originally Posted by jcbarr
That is why I said BOTH of you are right....unlike the Deadball era I lived through the hypocrisy of the "steroids" era.Quote:
Originally Posted by jcbarr
Again I re-iterate the belief that it was totally wrong but the "so called" Police of baseball (MLB) not only IGNORED it but went as so far as to ENCOURAGE its use by lack of testing followed by half testing & finally by retro active pardons (Gullen/Gibbons).
The MLB used the "3 monkey system" of policing its own sport when IRL the usage & simply BUYING of steroids (without prescription) was & is FEDERALLY illegal.(That is why I used the murder argument in the post above,if the investigating force is corrupt then justice WILL never be served correctly)
Griffey as stated has not been directly "tainted' & thus his candidacy for HOF will be unaffected but .....
So has Lance Armstrong, and so did Rafeal Palmeiro. Alot of people are adament with the Big Hurt not roiding, but I really don't understand it. Why is his word more honorable? He did have a big decline in health and stats at around the point roid use was becoming more prevalent to the public/media didn't he? And he did do most of his damage late 90's early 2000 era when roid usage was assumed to peak.Quote:
However, except for a select few players, I would not state that any player definitely did not do steroids. Actually, not a select few, just one. Frank Thomas. He's the only player I'm willing to state that I definitely don't think did steroids, as he has been speaking out against steroids and FOR testing for a very long time now.
You can 'think' he didn't, but how can you say you believe Sosa or Brady Anderson, or umpteen other players probably did and say unequivocally that there is no way Griffey did. That is the attitude we are referring to. The cloud and questions have to be there, especially if one is going to blame others who have less circumstantial evidence against them.Quote:
Originally Posted by yankee hater
I agree with dickay. I have reached the point where I believe that most players are guilty of something, since the offensive explosion in the early 90's. I just take all accomplishments (batting, especially)with that particular grain of salt.....they did it during the steroids era.
Did they? I don't recall that, I could be wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
I had read multiple places that Thomas was speaking out for steroid testing as far back as the early '90s...Quote:
Alot of people are adament with the Big Hurt not roiding, but I really don't understand it. Why is his word more honorable?
Thomas actually did most of his damage in the early-mid '90s, and declined as the late 90s came around. For example, he had a huge drop off from 1997 to 1998. Of course, none of that is proof at all of anything.Quote:
He did have a big decline in health and stats at around the point roid use was becoming more prevalent to the public/media didn't he? And he did do most of his damage late 90's early 2000 era when roid usage was assumed to peak.
I will agree I don't remember anyone speaking out against roids that far back. Doesn't make him innocent but does gain him some credibility.Quote:
I had read multiple places that Thomas was speaking out for steroid testing as far back as the early '90s...
True...then he had a hard time staying healthy. Classic sign of roid overuse or just his body was worn down?? Who knows. We do know that roids were around and maybe even popular in the early-mid 90's. When did Caminniti say that he believed more than 50% of pros were using? That was late 90's if i'm not mistaken. Canseco and McGwire were banging butts in a bathroom stall late 80's early 90's.Quote:
Thomas actually did most of his damage in the early-mid '90s, and declined as the late 90s came around. For example, he had a huge drop off from 1997 to 1998. Of course, none of that is proof at all of anything.
Hey, i don't know if Thomas used. But dang he was a big guy who broke down a bit early.
Yeah, but big guys usually always break down earlier than usual, and it's been that way forever. *shrug* As I said, I agree with you here. Those reports I recall reading about Thomas being outspoken against steroids for a very long time were the reasoning behind why I think he 100% did not do steroids, but, of course, he very well may have.
hey hey! look at that! Bullseye.Quote:
Originally Posted by yankee hater
god i hate thinking thomas, and griffey used. i mean noone will ever know if they did or didnt but it makes me want to cry thinking they might :(
Griff will always be a great player, he is one of the good guys! I still have his 1989 Upper Deck Rookie!