Big Unit ties Rocket for 2nd on career K's list

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Originally Posted by yankee hater

But you said hall of famer, not first ballot. No one said he wouldnt make the hall.

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Absolute, no questions asked = first ballot

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Originally Posted by yankee hater

Ok, see? That was easy. We already knew your stance that if a player should be in then they should be in first ballot. It doesn't mean we endorse that view, however.

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Oh. my. god.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

My point is, even if you think there is some difference in the ballot a player goes in on (I don't. You either belong in the HOF or don't to me), that should not at all be a question with Randy Johnson

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Those that think there is a difference on the ballots think so because they think first ballot is reserved for the absolute best players, the inner-circle type guys, correct? Is that a false assumption? If not, that is my point. Randy Johnson is without a doubt one of those players.

Randy Johnson sucks. Rick Krivda was much better :)

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Originally Posted by yankee hater

He is a lock anyway - the only question is first or second ballot.

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How could he not be 1st Ballot ? 5 Cy Youngs (another 3 2nd places), he will be 2nd in all Ks and most likely over 300 wins. and despite his Wildness Rep he has a better career K:BB ratio than guys like Smoltz, Clemens, Koufax, Blyleven and Carlton.

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Originally Posted by gRYFYN1

How could he not be 1st Ballot ? 5 Cy Youngs (another 3 2nd places), he will be 2nd in all Ks and most likely over 300 wins. and despite his Wildness Rep he has a better career K:BB ratio than guys like Smoltz, Clemens, Koufax, Blyleven and Carlton.

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His "wildness rep" is due to the fact that he was incredibly wild early in his career - take a look at 1990-1992. After 1992, his control progressively got better, peaking in 2004-2005

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

His "wildness rep" is due to the fact that he was incredibly wild early in his career - take a look at 1990-1992. After 1992, his control progressively got better, peaking in 2004-2005

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I know that, but when most people think about Johnson they think of him being wild.

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Originally Posted by gRYFYN1

I know that, but when most people think about Johnson they think of him being wild.

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I figured you knew that, but was just pointing it out anyway, you know, for those people:p

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Originally Posted by Wassit3

i missed it, I was out by 9 pm est. Is it on ESPN for replay?

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Probably, it was a great catch. I am not an ESPN guy so I don't know.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Oh. my. god.

Those that think there is a difference on the ballots think so because they think first ballot is reserved for the absolute best players, the inner-circle type guys, correct? Is that a false assumption? If not, that is my point. Randy Johnson is without a doubt one of those players.

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My take on it is a bit different. I think that in most years, there are 12-15 guys on the ballot who should go in, but each voter can only vote for a maximum of 10. So if you have a vote, you should vote for the best 10 on the ballot in a given year. So you could leave a guy off your ballot this year, because you think he's worthy, but there are 10 guys who are better, but then next year he's one of the top 10. Or vice-versa.

In Johnson's case, I don't see much chance that he wouldn't be one of the 10 best eligible players in his first year on the ballot.

You think there are 12-15 guys who should go in on every ballot?

That is the only reason, I think that a guy should be left off your ballot even if you think he belongs in the HOF - there are 10 other players that you think are more worthy. However, I don't think there's very many years that have 10 players that belong in the Hall.