AgreedQuote:
Originally Posted by RickD
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AgreedQuote:
Originally Posted by RickD
why... they are equalsQuote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Well I mean come on. Any guy who has ever dated, talked to or even looked at a woman know they are different. No matter how tough or fit a woman is she is DIFFERENT then men.
Seriously HGM look at the differences....
LOL.....ok so can this go both ways....one guy joining an all girls basketball team....people would have a fit....why? Guys are made different.....I think HGM is just trying to be contrary....:D;):pQuote:
Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet
No, I'm not. Men and women aren't exactly the same. They have general biological and psychological differences. This does not mean that women are incapable of competing in athletic events at the same level with men.
They may be capable....I concede that....however they still should not be allowed to play for various other reasons as well all cited here.
The only reason I've seen cited here as that "they are different", which is irrelevent so long as they are capable.
Try this:
Should it be allowed?
they have boobies!!! jezz I was hoping I didnt have to say it. it will become a distraction to the game... and i dont care if im called sexist, or a pig, or whatever... it will be distraction
Or This:
Women injuries in sports
Or This:
Women's Health and Sports
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD
He gives two reasons - that men are raised to treat women differently and that it can cause wrong things like sexual harrasment. Both arguments are easily shot down. If a woman wants to play a sport with men, she must accept being treated as if she's any other player, and all the players should treat her like she's any other player. We would need to get over the differences and just accept that, on the field, every player is just that - a player - and they should all be treated the same. The second thing, sexual harassment. It sounds like "We shouldn't let them in order to protect them from sexual harassment" and that's the same argument many people used to try and seem like they were okay with black people, even though they didn't want to integrate them - "If we integrate them, they'll be subjected to harassment." We're preventing the victim from doing something that she wants to do due to the possible actions of a guy that shouldn't be taking those actions. Instead of preventing women from playing because they might be subjected to sexual harassment, we should punish those that sexually harass any female participants, just like we'd punish any guys that sexually harass their fellow guys. Sexual harassment should not be tolerated, but that it may crop up is not a reason to disallow women from participating.
Wow I surprised myself...so if you read these articles you will clearly see why women should not play with men in sports!
So? What does this have to do with anything? This has nothing to do with allowing women to play in sports with men. All those injury concerns are there in all-female sports...And the same goes for the other health article you posted.Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Then they should share the same locker room, showers, treatment facilities, etc. Seriously if they want equal treatment on the field they should have the same treatment off the field while on the team!
I read them, and only one dealt specifically with women playing with men in sports, and it's two main points I don't think are valid enough to forbid women from playing sports with men.Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD
Having separate locker rooms, showers, etc. isn't giving men and women unequal treatment.Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD
That is my primary point. Its why I keep saying they should have the same locker rooms. If you want to be equal I can slap you around right just like I slap my buddies around. Not a chance in heII. Oh yea and when the pitcher comes out must the manager say "oh I cant pay her *** like the man I must be carefull". Again not a chanceQuote:
Originally Posted by RickD
How is it not?!?Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
OK....I....you know what....I....uugggghhh....HGM dude seriously do you really feel this passionate or are you just trying to make a point?
Anyway I give up....you will ultimately shoot down every argument and there's no point in going on about it. I respect you enough not to continue debating it.
Agreed...I am all for equal rights but let's not pick and choose...you want to play with the big boys you gt treated EXACTLY like the big boys...No FAVORTISM, NO SPECIAL TREATMENT.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet
How is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet
I have an opinion on it, and I'm arguing my viewpoint.Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD
I don't think it's an issue of respect. A debate is a back and forth between two opposing sides. As long as both sides are being civil, which they are, there's nothing wrong with it.Quote:
Anyway I give up....you will ultimately shoot down every argument and there's no point in going on about it. I respect you enough not to continue debating it.
I guess I'm just used to the debate forum on the other site I visit, where debates can go on for hundreds of posts..
Separate locker rooms and showers is not favoritism, nor is it special treatment.Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD
I agree debates can be healthy....Back and forth....it's just sometimes you do seem to go too far (in trying to get the last word)...anyway....nothing personal....continue.....
I don't see how I've gone too far, or been trying to get the last word. You've posted your arguments, I've refuted them...Feel free to refute my points.
How is it not? If 54 guys have one locker room and shower facilities how is giving one player (male or female) a seperate facility NOT special treatment....andQuote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
as mentioned by others....so the slapping, punching, name calling, all ok? I think not. Women's rights groups would mutilate a guy who did that, sports or not.
Ok never mind then....Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Having separate locker rooms, bathrooms and showers for males and females is not special treatment. It's not like you're giving one person a special place to go. You're giving males one place to shower and change, and females one palce to shower and change. There's no special treatment going on there.Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD
Slapping, punching, and name-calling fellow teammates? Or what? If it's the opposing team, that stuff is wrong whether or not it's males or females. If it's the same team, well, it's still wrong.Quote:
as mentioned by others....so the slapping, punching, name calling, all ok? I think not. Women's rights groups would mutilate a guy who did that, sports or not.
Unless you're talking of the friendly kind of slapping/high-fiving and joke-like name-calling, in which case, I don't think womens' rights groups would have a problem.
In any case, yes, women that plays a sport that is predominantly male should be expected to be treated just like any other player on the field, and womens' rights groups would have to accept that it is the womens' choice to place said sport, knowing full well that she will be treated like any other player.
It is when you want the guys to treat them as equals!Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Except a special locker room, shower, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Do you watch sports...hockey....football....even baseball there is serious razzing. It may be wrong but it happens...every day...every game!Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Would you feel comfortable seeing a woman hockey player slammed into the boards by a guy? A woman running back being pummeled by a linebacker? It also would affect how a guy plays....
separate but equal eh?? Yeah, i think we may have been through that before.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Are you nutz? The first slap on the arse and woman would be SCREAMING over the radio and picketing games. I agree they should be able to play, but you 'underestimate' how far these rights groups will go. Talk about hypocrites.....they embody it.Quote:
Unless you're talking of the friendly kind of slapping/high-fiving and joke-like name-calling, in which case, I don't think womens' rights groups would have a problem.
I gotta say, for you guys who don't seem to think women are capable somehow of playing a contact sport, do yourself a favor, go watch a women's rugby game. They are downright BRUTAL on the field. I have seen women's rugby that was easily ten times more violent and impactful than the men's version, on a regular basis.
Why is a separate locker room "special"? It's not "special."Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD
I would feel indifferent to it. There are women that are perfectly capable of withstanding such physical events.Quote:
Would you feel comfortable seeing a woman hockey player slammed into the boards by a guy? A woman running back being pummeled by a linebacker?
It would obviously require a change in thinking, I suppose.Quote:
It also would affect how a guy plays....
I think that the reasons why there should be separate locker rooms, showers, and bathrooms are abundantly clear, and it has nothing to do with special treating, letting them be equal on the field but not off, etc. Men and women can and should be treated equally on and off the field, even though they change clothes, shower, and relieve themselves in different rooms.Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
I think this argument about making it so that the sports are equal right down to the locker room is just a way to make the "pro-women in sports" side look hypocritical for wanting women to be allowed to play, despite having separate locker rooms. There's no preferential treatment going on there, or anything, though, so, it fails to hold up, I think.
You're right, but that just makes them ridiculous. If women were allowed to play, it'd be their choice, and they would know what it entails. Rights group may call out, but any women that is making the choice to play the game would have no right to complain because it's her choice.Quote:
Are you nutz? The first slap on the arse and woman would be SCREAMING over the radio and picketing games. I agree they should be able to play, but you 'underestimate' how far these rights groups will go. Talk about hypocrites.....they embody it.
I agree they should have different locker rooms and it's an argument made to support a biased view. As I read this thread however, you attempt to take a moral stand and pick apart regardless of view everyones posts...so I figured I'd do the same with yours.Quote:
I think that the reasons why there should be separate locker rooms, showers, and bathrooms are abundantly clear, and it has nothing to do with special treating, letting them be equal on the field but not off, etc. Men and women can and should be treated equally on and off the field, even though they change clothes, shower, and relieve themselves in different rooms.
I think this argument about making it so that the sports are equal right down to the locker room is just a way to make the "pro-women in sports" side look hypocritical for wanting women to be allowed to play, despite having separate locker rooms. There's no preferential treatment going on there, or anything, though, so, it fails to hold up, I think.
It is hypocritical for you to say they should have everything equal, and then say they should be separate however. It can never be completely equal as we are adults and understand woman and men on a team should have different locker rooms. Our society once said blacks and whites should have separate but equal bathrooms and schools. How'd that work? Truth is, everything comes as a package, and providing a separate locker room for one female on a team of 25 players is segregating her. There will probably be numerous other obstacles that segregate her which she'd have to deal with, similar to Jackie Robinson but to a far less degree.
So Jackie Robinson had no right to complain about hate crimes, being called a nig__, and the like because he chose to play baseball??Quote:
You're right, but that just makes them ridiculous. If women were allowed to play, it'd be their choice, and they would know what it entails. Rights group may call out, but any women that is making the choice to play the game would have no right to complain because it's her choice.
C'mon man, you know the two situations are not at all analagous. A women playing a sport would have every right to complain if she was being called sexist names, being subjected to harassment, etc. Being treated like every other player, and not getting preferential treatment due to your sex, does not fall anywhere near those categories.Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
I don't think that it's at all hypocritical to say that men and women should be allowed to play the same sport, but still get naked in separate locker rooms.Quote:
It is hypocritical for you to say they should have everything equal, and then say they should be separate however.
You know what, if the girl wants to be in the locker room with 24 men, than sure, let her. But I'd be willing to bet that there'd be very few girls that would want to do that. There are some pretty obvious reasons why there should be separate changing and shower areas for males and females. I don't think it's at all similar to the racial issue, although I would admit that any female playing a "man's sport" would have to face some obstacles similar, but different, to those that Jackie Robinson faced.Quote:
Truth is, everything comes as a package, and providing a separate locker room for one female on a team of 25 players is segregating her. There will probably be numerous other obstacles that segregate her which she'd have to deal with, similar to Jackie Robinson but to a far less degree.
Well 1st off the the question is women in "PRO BASEBALL/SPORTS'
title IX as stated "No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance" refers to educational/Federal funded programs, not Pro Sports.
Again I can't see why anyone would have an issue with any person, if able, to partake in a profession.
Truth be told if a woman really could help a team win someone would have tried it. Just look at basketball do you really think they could play in the NBA ? They are all far far far too small (the leading rebounder an league MVP is 6-5, 187) they would get leveled if they tried to play in the NBA. QMJHL has has women players, all who eventually failed.
Yep. That's pretty much my stance. If a person is able to do it, they should be allowed to.Quote:
Originally Posted by gRYFYN1
They are not different at all, other than the circumstances. You don't think a pat on the a$$ will be overblown somewhere down the line? You don't think womans rights groups will complain, or maybe some men would go too far with it and maybe get a squeeze in? You don't think on the bottom of a pile in football there would be some groping going on? Preferential treatment would have to come out of it. Pats on the a$$ would be banned and so on so forth.Quote:
C'mon man, you know the two situations are not at all analagous. A women playing a sport would have every right to complain if she was being called sexist names, being subjected to harassment, etc. Being treated like every other player, and not getting preferential treatment due to your sex, does not fall anywhere near those categories.
Again, they should be allowed to play if they can perform.....but your simplifying the ramifications too much. Getting your own dressing room isn't being treated like every other player, it is different. Being handled differently due to circumstances out of your control (pats on the a$$ for example). Questions about ref's giving females preferential treatment on fouls would definetly exist. God forbid the woman use her looks of 'assets' or even be percieved to use them.....so many consequences which we can't even dream up.
This is actually a big news story somewhere in the country. I heard it on the news but don't recall where. A male is trying to get into an all female college because of their ciricullum and other factors. Females are up in arms stating it's an all female school and he can't join but they are using title IX amongst other items to fight this. Of course, the womans rights groups arguing against were the same groups arguing for woman getting equal opportunities so it's an itriguing argument.Quote:
title IX as stated "No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance" refers to educational/Federal funded programs, not Pro Sports.