Your personal view on Women in sports/baseball

Between the option to have women enter pro baseball in Mogul, and the recent thread about the subject in real life, it got me thinking. I'd really like to hear you're personal opinion on the subject of either women playing high school, college, semi-, or pro sports with men, or especially playing baseball. If you could control whether or not women (who we'll assume, for the sake of argument, are at least of average ability) should or shouldn't be allowed to play on "men's" teams.

No polls, just state your opinion. I'll withhold my own until later in a feeble attempt at maintaining some neutrality, since I'm starting the thread.
Put on your flame retardant suits and just peak your mind!
:)

I think that if a women is capable of playing at the same level, she should be allowed to play with men. She should also expect to be treated just as if she were any other player - ie. no preferential treatment during games because she's female. I don't think women should be barred from a sport for the sole reason that she is a female. If she's capable of competing at the same athletic level, she should be allowed to play.

Anyone who has the ability to compete should be allowed to.

Interesting, i'll add a twist.

First off, I have no problem with woman playing with men if they can compete with them. And I don't mean be amongst the best in the sport, just be able to sit at the table. For example, I have NO problem with Michelle Wie or Anikka Sorenstam playing with the men. First off, they are good enough to be there, maybe not make the cut, but good enough to be there. Secondly, they help grow the game. Wie (at the time of her exemptions to play with the men) was much better for the game of golf than the last man in the field. If a woman basketball player can play at the pro level, more power to her. I'd root for her. Same in baseball.

Now hoops, baseball, football are different than golf. Being good enough to sit at the table in those major sports is alot harder than being good enough to make the last spot in a PGA golf tourney. The 25th spot on a MLB roster can't be a publicity stunt like Wie was in the golf tourney. I think she has to 'deserve and have earned' the spot.

Now to my twist....although I like to think i'm not sexist and have no problem with woman playing in pro sports, I have learned that I LOATHE woman radio sports talk show hosts. Even on TV, my mind just tunes them out. Diana Jacobson is probably one of the few I can tolerate. I could probably watch womans college hoops if it weren't for the woman commentators. I have to mute the **** TV! I read book on tape alot, and female readers just don't work for me there either. And I don't really care for the Katie Couric on CBS evening news but can tolerate. Sports however, especially on the radio....no thanks.

I just read one of the other threads that may have sparked this one. The single father raising two girls wondering if he should help her get into the boys high school baseball team. There are different circumstances for everything.....and this one is much more involved than whether or not it should be allowable for girls to play on boys high school teams.

My last post was referring to the professional level, after they've played their way up through the womans rank, crossing over the mens professional game. To crossover and push that envelope as a teenager, especially in the situation mentioned above is dangerous IMO. I think there's more to that story than just baseball.

Through the high school, I'm all for females competing against males in sports, with a few exceptions.

• I do not believe females should be wrestling against males in high school and below, due to the immaturity of the individuals in such intimate contact.
• I do not believe that females should be playing football against males with the possible exception of kicker and punter. Again, this is due to the immaturity of the individuals involved and the intimate contact in piles after a tackle. A lot of nasty things happen in those piles, and I assume that it would be worse for a female football player.

After high school, I do not see a reason to segregate the sexes.

I do have questions about allowing males to participate in female sports, like high school softball & volleyball (in places where they do not have male volleyball). Should it go both ways?

The golf thing I did not like because of how it was done. Exempting them in instead of making them go through the same process everyone else has to, plus I feel they should be in either the LPGA or the PGA, not move back and forth as some circus show.

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The golf thing I did not like because of how it was done. Exempting them in instead of making them go through the same process everyone else has to, plus I feel they should be in either the LPGA or the PGA, not move back and forth as some circus show.

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There are always sponsorship exemptions though. If they didn't get it, someone else would have. It's not as if they made a special exemption for them.

No... i honestly do not have a justifiable reason. Just no.

I do feel that women are equal but they shoudl be treated as equal. A woman firefighter in CT would have to carry say 40 LBS for 100 yards where a make would have to cary 60 or 70. (I dont remember the #'s but its something like that)

I feel that if women are capable of standing up to the same standards of men then by all means let them. Pay them the same if they do the same job, give them the same opertunities , just NOT in sprots.

Call me sexist I dont care... Women are different then men. I am not saying better or worse just different. Same as a midget is no less of a person then a normal height person but they are still not the same.

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Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet

I feel that if women are capable of standing up to the same standards of men then by all means let them. Pay them the same if they do the same job, give them the same opertunities , just NOT in sprots.

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Isn't that just a wee-bit hypocritical? What makes sports different then the rest of life?

Then lets have all bathrooms be unisex. Same with all dressing rooms in stores.

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Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet

Then lets have all bathrooms be unisex. Same with all dressing rooms in stores.

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That's an entirely different situation...

This statement:

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I feel that if women are capable of standing up to the same standards of men then by all means let them

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directly contradicts your stated belief that women shouldn't be allowed to play "men" sports.

At the risk of getting sucked into a debate, which I have no intention of doing on a beautiful day in which I am drinking beer and enjoying life, I will say this much. This will no doubt brand me as sexist by some folks, but so be it. I prefer to think of it as being honest.

If you want girls to compete in men's sports, fine. Go ahead. If Danica Patrick can hang with the boys, fine. She also looks great in a bikini, BTW. But if you do that, then you also have to consider doing away with things like Title IX, which basically amounts to reverse discrimination. Why do we need a separate womens basketball program at Division I basketball schools, if the men are clearly better basketball players? Why should a school have to do away with a men's sport that people want to see, such as my own beloved NC State had to do years ago with lacrosse, in order to spend that money on a women's sport that draws far less people?

If the women are "just as good", then let them compete for a spot on the men's team. I've heard it said that the women are "just as good", but "in their own way". That's BS. Either they are or they aren't. Sure, Michelle Wie and Annika Sorenstam have competed in men's tournaments, but how well have they done? etothep mentioned in the other thread that "women don't seem conditioned to throw overhand in baseball". My nephew's Little League has a girl on another team playing 1st base. She has good velocity on a throw when she lets go of it, but her delivery is godawful. It takes her what seems like a half hour to get set to make a throw, even a simple one from 1st to home plate. She can't hit worth a ****, either.

If what we're really after is the best in all sports, then let's see the best, period, regardless of sex. Far more often than not, that's going to be the male. That's not to say it's always the case, frankly I'd much rather watch women's tennis and gymnastics than male, to be honest.

Does that seem "fair"? If sports are only open to the cream of the crop of either sex, is that better or worse than making certain sports available to players from BOTH sexes?

Ok honestly, I think if Women can compete on the same field let them. Once they cross that border they aren't "women" in that respect, they are players like the rest, the just happen to be female.

But you can't do away with title IX and the like, for the simple reason that women aren't equal to men on a physical level. No to be mean or sexist, its just a simple fact that they can't.

Hey, if they can compete, I say let them, in all sports where it makes sense (ie, not wrestling/football as previously mentioned). Just no exploitation, like the midget baseball player, or using good-looking girls in tight, skimpy outfits to attract people or gain fan interest.

Just honest athleticism making the determination, I see no problem with. If girls can never throw overhand, then they'll never make it to the mlb; but I see no point in writing them off ahead of time or never giving them the opportunity.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

directly contradicts your stated belief that women shouldn't be allowed to play "men" sports.

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My point is they cant stand up the same to men. It would turn the wport into a circus.

hmmm...

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Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet

My point is they cant stand up the same to men.

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Who says?

How many have tried and failed?

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Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet

How many have tried and failed?

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I'd be willing to put my money on "Not many".

Even so, that's the thing. Let them try. If they can do it, let them. If they can't, they can't, just like any male that can't.

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Originally Posted by gRYFYN1

Ok honestly, I think if Women can compete on the same field let them. Once they cross that border they aren't "women" in that respect, they are players like the rest, the just happen to be female.

But you can't do away with title IX and the like, for the simple reason that women aren't equal to men on a physical level. No to be mean or sexist, its just a simple fact that they can't.

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You can't have it both ways. Either they have their own sports, or they don't. They either play with the men, or they don't. Anything else isn't justifiable.

Personally I say keep the Title IX and don't let them compete. There are a couple of reasons for that. Suffice to say it's the most practical, given the current state of our society we (as a people) are not always interested in seeing the 'cream of the crop.' We would rather be all inclusive...which isn't a bad thing unless taken to extremes, but does require seperation unless you're going to discriminate against the males.

I

if they're good enough to make a pro team, why not?

though i have quite a hard time seeing this happening

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

I'd be willing to put my money on "Not many".

Even so, that's the thing. Let them try. If they can do it, let them. If they can't, they can't, just like any male that can't.

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good point. I do however think it would turn into a side show and would end up as having a woman on the team as a way to sell tickets. I dont think society would aprove of it. and i, personaly woudl HATE it

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Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet

good point. I do however think it would turn into a side show and would end up as having a woman on the team as a way to sell tickets. I dont think society would aprove of it. and i, personaly woudl HATE it

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And that's something that would be stupid and shouldn't happen....but if a female can play well enough to be on the team, I think she should be allowed to. Publicity stunts, marketing efforts, etc. I'd be opposed to. I just don't think females should be barred from trying out/participating simply by virtue of them being female.

I'll put it this way...
I HATE the DH and HATE interleague becuase thats not how the game was designed. I dont like all the F/A movement and the $$$ involved in the game. I HATE how its even more of a buisness than it used to be... I KNOW it has always been a buisness but now its different. I want baseball from the 20s-60's and even the 70's. Bring back REAL baseball and get rid of all this extra **** so why add another thing to not like. *shrug*

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

And that's something that would be stupid and shouldn't happen....but if a female can play well enough to be on the team, I think she should be allowed to. Publicity stunts, marketing efforts, etc. I'd be opposed to. I just don't think females should be barred from trying out/participating simply by virtue of them being female.

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i thinnk it would BECOME a publicity stunt tho thats the problem

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Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet

I HATE the DH and HATE interleague becuase thats not how the game was designed.

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The game also wasn't designed to have black and foreign players. ;)

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I dont like all the F/A movement

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You'd rather players be slaves to one team>?

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I HATE how its even more of a buisness than it used to be... I KNOW it has always been a buisness but now its different.

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That's because society is different.

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I want baseball from the 20s-60's and even the 70's. Bring back REAL baseball and get rid of all this extra **** so why add another thing to not like. *shrug*

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:rolleyes: heh

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Originally Posted by CatKnight

You can't have it both ways. Either they have their own sports, or they don't. They either play with the men, or they don't. Anything else isn't justifiable.

Personally I say keep the Title IX and don't let them compete. There are a couple of reasons for that. Suffice to say it's the most practical, given the current state of our society we (as a people) are not always interested in seeing the 'cream of the crop.' We would rather be all inclusive...which isn't a bad thing unless taken to extremes, but does require seperation unless you're going to discriminate against the males.I

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My point was, Title IX already discriminates against males. Some people want to take that even further, by allowing women to compete in historically male sports while excluding males from competing in other sports. This is an egregious double standard and should not be allowed to happen. Much like supporting the NAACP while saying that a NAAWP (white people) is racist. And don't bring up the KKK, because we all know that that IS racist and is an abomination that should be eliminated at every opportunity. But does that excuse the existence of the NAACP and not an NAAWP? I don't think so. As the old saying goes, two wrongs do not make a right.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

The game also wasn't designed to have black and foreign players. ;)[/quite}
It was never "designed" that way. It was not in the rules that black players couldnt play they just were blackballed. there is a rule is there not stating that women can't play


[quite]You'd rather players be slaves to one team>?

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I dont mean slaves to 1 team. i mean all the jumping around from 1 team to another. If it wanst such a $$$ issue aer you really telling me Torri Hunter would not be on the twins, willis/cabrerra not on the marlins, even vlad on the expos/nationals.

If you really think about it The mariners would have won for a VERY long time with arod/griffey/Martinez/Cameron/Oleroud/Johnson oven garcia and moyer were decent. the could have averaged over 100 wins for 3-5 years and DOMINATED the way the Yankees did.

THe point is its not the owners, or in reality the players faults. Honestly I have to say its the players Union. Ant trus me I am a fan of unions (tho im sure that will start an argument so I will not comment on it again) I think the players union has everyone by the balls and can do what they want. I Honestly think you wnat to get everything straightoned out, have a lockout... It's going to KILL the casual fan base but the diehard fan would love it if everone threw up their hands and said Look we made a mistake. We have instilled penalties to try and weed these guys out who are using PED's and it jsut isnt working. we are Going to start mandatory resting every month starting next year. If you dont like it... retire.

The high salaries are not due to the Player's Union. It's due to the fact that baseball is in high demand, and the fans are willing to pay high prices, which in turn allows players to demand more money from teams.

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Originally Posted by beerchaser

My point was, Title IX already discriminates against males. Some people want to take that even further, by allowing women to compete in historically male sports while excluding males from competing in other sports. This is an egregious double standard and should not be allowed to happen. Much like supporting the NAACP while saying that a NAAWP (white people) is racist. And don't bring up the KKK, because we all know that that IS racist and is an abomination that should be eliminated at every opportunity. But does that excuse the existence of the NAACP and not an NAAWP? I don't think so. As the old saying goes, two wrongs do not make a right.

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Its like afermitave action. It worked PERFECTLY the way it was supposed to, forcing companies to higher minorities into positions of power. The problem is now it is excluding people from jobs because it is a REQUIREMENT to have a certain % of minorities. That to me is wrong but a topic for a different day.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

The high salaries are not due to the Player's Union. It's due to the fact that baseball is in high demand, and the fans are willing to pay high prices, which in turn allows players to demand more money from teams.

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They started the ball rolling

I am against women in baseball, football, basketball, the military, etc if they are mixing with men. I am all for women's baseball, football, basketball and in the military just not on the same team. The reality is women and men are different and to mix in sports puts women at an unfair advantage. It may sound sexist but it's true.

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Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet

They started the ball rolling

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By demanding that those that create the entertainment that generates the revenue get a fair share of that revenue.

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Originally Posted by RickD

The reality is women and men are different and to mix in sports puts women at an unfair advantage. It may sound sexist but it's true.

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So, there's no woman that could be better than men at such things?

I'm not saying certain women would not be better but the physiological, biological, psychological ,etc differences would be too great to allow them to be effective. What family wants to pay good money to take their kids to an NFL game and watch 3 300 pound linemen gang tackle a 140 pound female quarterback. It goes the same in the military...a male unit with a female soldier, said group is taken hostage, who would the bad guys try to torture in order to break the troop morale? Sad, sexist whatever the issues are there.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

So, there's no woman that could be better than men at such things?

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thats not what I said. First of I honestly think it would be few and far between, and secondly I don't want to see a woman playing baseball in the MLB. As I said before... I just dont want to see it... I don't have a great argument but its one of the few things that I am very closeminded about.

Don't get me wrong I LOVE women, in fact I did last night :rolleyes: but I dont want to play next to one if im playing. It not that they are inferior or anything like that, My boss Is a woman (well one of the is anyway) and are as cappable as any boss I've ever had and she is treated with same as all the male bosses ive had. Brains wise, a woman is no better nor any worse than a man, phyisicaly women are NOT the same and I will go to my grave saying that.

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Originally Posted by RickD

I'm not saying certain women would not be better but the physiological, biological, psychological ,etc differences would be too great to allow them to be effective.

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Every person is different. Such a blanket statement cannot possibly be true.

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What family wants to pay good money to take their kids to an NFL game and watch 3 300 pound linemen gang tackle a 140 pound female quarterback.

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I don't think any 140 pound female would be good enough / stay healthy enough to play in the NFL. This is where the whole "the female must be capable" thing comes in.

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Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet

thats not what I said.

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That reply wasn't to you. See the quoted part right above it.. :p

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Brains wise, a woman is no better nor any worse than a man, phyisicaly women are NOT the same and I will go to my grave saying that.

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In general, yes. But there ARE women that are just as physically capable as men, if not more so, at whatever sport is in question.

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Originally Posted by RickD

I'm not saying certain women would not be better but the physiological, biological...

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cant play today im bleeding

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.... psychological ,etc differences would be too great to allow them to be effective. What family wants to pay good money to take their kids to an NFL game and watch 3 300 pound linemen gang tackle a 140 pound female quarterback. It goes the same in the military...a male unit with a female soldier, said group is taken hostage, who would the bad guys try to torture in order to break the troop morale? Sad, sexist whatever the issues are there.

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very good points tho my gross comment is probably going to get a sideways look but its true. I don't know about your guys significant others but mine sure is a headache 5 days a month... not that I dont deserve it based on the other 23 days :p but its true. You want that in a locker room?

Yeah ok....point is women and men are physically different....FACT....women are biologically different then men.....FACT

I think sports should be same sex only. OPINION!

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Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet

You want that in a locker room?

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Girls and guys would obviously have separate locker rooms...