That was Ian Kennedy's wang, unfortunately. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by dickay
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That was Ian Kennedy's wang, unfortunately. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by dickay
Wait... so Wang is allowed to actually hit and pitch?!Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
If not (which I am pretty dang sure that he is not allowed to), then Wang didn't get "owned". Dude gave up 3 runs in 7 innings of work. In a night where he didn't have his best stuff, he still had a quality start.
Cliff Lee sucks anyways, and will eventually start sucking eggs.
Dude, so you're finally starting to see my point?Quote:
Originally Posted by koolzach1
HOW DO YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THIS....and then still use wins to evaluate pitchers? I said Lee owned Wang in order to show you how ridiculous it is to assign the outcome of the game as a Win or a Loss to a pitcher, when more than just the pitcher contributes to the win and the loss. Cliff Lee owned the Yankees lineup. Chien-Ming Wang pitched a very good game but got no help from the offense. This is why using wins and losses to evaluate pitchers is stupid.Quote:
If not (which I am pretty dang sure that he is not allowed to), then Wang didn't get "owned". Dude gave up 3 runs in 7 innings of work. In a night where he didn't have his best stuff, he still had a quality start.
Cliff Lee doesn't suck. He sucked for a season while being plagued by injuries. He was solid in 2005 and 2006.Quote:
Cliff Lee sucks anyways, and will eventually start sucking eggs.
Yankees! Yankees!
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Well, I am just saying that Wang did not get "owned"... He pitched a very solid game for not having his best stuff.
Lee is average, really.
And I'm not saying he didn't, but if you're going to use wins and losses to evaluate players, than you also have to admit that Wang lost the game and thus didn't do well. Or, you could just stop using wins and losses to determine whose a better pitcher.Quote:
Originally Posted by koolzach1
For his career. This year, he's been otherworldly.Quote:
Lee is average, really.
From Rotoworld:
Quote:
Just in case you thought his deal with the devil was only for April, Lee turned in another outstanding effort, striking out seven and walking zero while scattering six hits. His ERA is now down to an amazing 0.81 and Lee's 39/2 K/BB ratio in 44 2/3 innings suggests that he's been anything but lucky. There's plenty reason to remain somewhat skeptical given Lee's horrendous 2007 and unspectacular track record, but so far at least he's putting together a legitimate breakout season.
I admit Wang lost the game and did not do well. I also admit the Yankees are the greatest team EVER!!!! Yankees!
How is 3 runs in 7 innings not pitching well?Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD
Wang did well, and still lost the game... It happens. I will still use wins/losses as a key piece to evaluating a pitcher. Other stats do come into affect to, I won't lie, but when the win/loss record is good, the pitcher generally put up solid stats... Basically:
19 Wins = solid all around stats also (at least MOST of the time).
No. The YANKEES lost the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by koolzach1
Yes, generally, you can't win that much without being a good pitcher. And Chien-Ming Wang is a very good pitcher. But to say he's the best in the league because he has like 4 more wins in the last few seasons than some other pitchers is silly. You have to acknowledge the fact that he's on one of the best offensive teams in the major leagues, and that other, better pitchers are on worse offensive teams and don't get good support and thus don't get the wins. Wins and losses are dependent on the offensive support. They tell you nothing about how a pitcher pitched. You can make some generalizations about it (ie. to win 19 games you have to have pitched well), but it's downright silly to say that a pitcher that won 19 games is better than a pitcher that won 16 (Brandon Webb was better than Chien-Ming Wang in both 2006 and 2007, but won 16 and 18 games).Quote:
I will still use wins/losses as a key piece to evaluating a pitcher. Other stats do come into affect to, I won't lie, but when the win/loss record is good, the pitcher generally put up solid stats... Basically:
19 Wins = solid all around stats also (at least MOST of the time).
Yankees! Yankees!
This is something else I absolutely cannot understand about the crowd of baseball fans that still like to rely on wins and losses for pitchers. They seem to acknowledge the gigantic problems with the stat...yet still base evaluations on it...
Lol @ Rick!
A true fellow fan... Actually I am starting to wonder about some of our fans... They really hate this year's team. I keep telling them that we will make the playoffs, and in the off season sign Tex for 1B, C.C. as our #1b, and a couple of RP (hopefully).
Well I do love the Yanks koolzach1 and glad you do as well. My only disappointments with the team are Giambi and Hughes! Kennedy I am ambivalent about.
Anyway I will keep popping in and cheering for the Yanks if for no other reason than to tweak the non-Yank fans.
You are the same Rick that posts on the espn yankee message boards, right?
And yes, I am very disappointed with Giambi, Hughes, Kennedy, and Cano thus far. Hopefully A-Rod and Posada can get healthy soon to give us some more offense!
Actually no I am not that same Rick....I don't have time for all the boards....I only post on this, a religion group at usatoday and my own blog.
Alright, you've all convinced me. From now on I shall refer to the Yanks as the New York Wangs.
Why no :
"Girardi yanks Wang in the 7th for Farnsworth" comments ?
Yankees....Yankees!
Wow, all this time, I thought you 2 were the same Rick, lol...Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD
No sorry....
Look, Chien Ming Wang is now 6- 1. That means that he now officially sucks and Cliff Lee (6-0) is now the best pitcher in baseball history.
lol
No! Brandon Webb is.Quote:
Originally Posted by metsguy234
8-0!
Yankees! Yankees! and look at Rivera! 9 saves and a 0 era!
Better than any crappy Muts pitcher... :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by metsguy234
And how about Rivera!
Been a beast... and many thought that he was done... psh!
Yankees! Yeah 14 innings, 9 saves, no blown saves, 0.00 era....I'd say that is fantastic!
Looks like Kennedy's going to get a start with Iggy going to bullpen. Scott Patterson shook off the slow start and he's doing well in AAA. I'd like to see him getting promoted and send Igawa down. David Robertson (22 years old) is adjusting in AAA now with 2.70 ERA. Without any complication, he should be in for bullpen job in the later in the season.
Oh, and I'm not tad alerted about Hughes, but I think someone screwed up his mechanics a bit. Good read. Even with dismal record with broken ribcage (really???), he's still 21. Anyone who thinks he's a bust is a liar, rapist, or communist... (okay, I'll stop with that...) Kennedy... I don't see him more than 4th and 5th starter and his command/control in 2008 (in MLB) so far has been weak--and he's a guy who has been leeching off from those for his success. He did dominate in whopping one start in AAA last week... the jury is still out on him.
BTW, is there an ignore list in this board?
Yes. You can access it in your User Control Panel, on the left menu under Miscellaneous.Quote:
Originally Posted by McLoving
I dont' actually want to get into this thread now, but I've got to say that McLovin (haha!) has a great point here. It's waaaay too early to be saying that any of these kids are a bust.