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Guess it depends upon who you listen to and which article you read. CNNSI had a video clip of doctors discussing how the horse had two broken front legs which is always terminal for these horses as this horse couldn't even be braced and limp to the ambulance.Quote:
Originally Posted by gRYFYN1
So i'd say compared with what Eight Belles had suffered, there's no comparison. Eight Belles had one injured leg, this horse had two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
Huh, Eight Belles (the horse from Saturday Derby) had two broken front legs, one extremely so. Nureyev (the horse from the article, injuried in 1986) Had one broken hind leg.
I always figured it's because you can't put horses legs in a cast like you can with humans. They spend most of their life standing and the bone just won't heal. Not that I'm an expert.Quote:
Originally Posted by metsguy234
I did find myself, many years ago, working at a stable (despite knowing nothing about horses). A stallion tried to jump out of his stall to get at the mares. He broke a leg and the horse was just shot there and then. Not pleasant but, apparently, the only option.
Ahhh, I see. I didn't know the name of the horse in the race, thought the article was about a horse named eight belles and you were making an argument that the horse 'shouldn't' have been euthanized.Quote:
Originally Posted by gRYFYN1
My bad, we are on the same page I see.
Just a few of the issues :Quote:
Originally Posted by metsguy234
Horse weigh alot and have very thin bones, they must distribute their weight evenly or they have repeated stress fractures to other legs.
Horse have very thin legs (especially racing horses, from years on inbreeding) even small break or stress fractures can interrupt the blood flow and cause the foot/leg to die.
Horse CANNOT take being immobilized, by nature they like to run and wind up causing more damage to themselves, horses that are immobilized for long periods of time will literally "give up" and stop eating.
Horses can easily get Laminitis (http://www.animalherbcompany.com/articles/laminitis.htm) a brutally painfully disease, from compensating for an injured leg
They can develop colic, colitis, or respritory infection because horse use movemnt to help regulate their there digestion and breathing.
For what it's worth, I think as long as a vet (or a team of vets) makes the decision... they know more than I do.
I do wonder about the wisdom of racing her in the derby though. A few people here have made it sound as though this was nothing more than a publicity stunt. As the owner of a multi-million dollar asset, why would you want to risk that for a publicity stunt anyway? Make a quick buck instead of having the asset long term? I don't know, this whole thing (what little I know about it) just confuses me.
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by ohms_law
I also heard on Sportscenter that her legs were so broken that the bones were literally showing through her skin and all...seems kind of harsh to put the horse through that much pain....
I trust the vets that made the decision over everything else at this point.
I have no doubt that the horse had to be put down. The only thing I have a problem with was the reason it had to be put down
These horses are cared for better than most humans.
Most educated slave owners took great care of their slaves. The better the health, the more money and work could be done.
I'm not sure if you are referring to race horses specifically, but horses in general are born to do what all animals are born to do; live, breed, protect their young. The only time animals are meant to fight or compete against other animals is if they feel they are in danger, competing over a mate, or over food or territory.
Besides if they are so happy to be racing as they all like to say, why the need to whip them?
BTW, PETA's on them now:
PETA wants Eight Belles jockey suspended
Gee, there's a shockerQuote:
BTW, PETA's on them now:
That's beacue PETA take a good idea ( ethical treating of animals) and has made thier organization into a shameless headline seeking joke.
Eight Belles certianly could compete, as shown by her 2nd place finish, She only cane in 2nd due to an amazing run by Big Brown, However she was competeing slightly over her head by running such a long race, which she want accustom to.
People have their opinions on Horse racing, generally based on the 2 minutes they see out of a horses life, but truth is, the horse are treated exceptionally well, far better than most animals. Owners do what they can for them (Barbaro's owner last years spend close to 1 million dollars try to save him from a broken leg )
Really rediculous, lets get real. I guess dogs, cats, fish, and any other pet should be released into the wild since being in a house or fish bowl isn't what they were 'born to do'.Quote:
Most educated slave owners took great care of their slaves. The better the health, the more money and work could be done.
I'm not sure if you are referring to race horses specifically, but horses in general are born to do what all animals are born to do; live, breed, protect their young. The only time animals are meant to fight or compete against other animals is if they feel they are in danger, competing over a mate, or over food or territory.
I would venture a guess that there are no serious horse owners in PETA. I've never owned a horse, and i'm sure there are some who treat them horrifically, but then again there are those who treat any animals as well as people horrifically and our laws address them. Most horse owners treat these animals very well. Your slave analogy just doesn't work. Most rationale humans see a difference between a human and an animal for starters. Are you one of the extremests that won't eat meat because a cow was slaughtered????? At least those who go that far aren't hipocrites.
I agree.
By the way, I don't think that there's any serious anything in PITA...
lol
I like spiced lamb with a dill-lemon yogurt sauce and some roma tomatoes, greek olives, and feta cheese in my pita. A little crumbled bacon is nice too.
That said, I don't see how the euthanasia of the horse can be an ethical question. It was in an extreme amount of pain that it would never understand, and it was extremely unlikely to get better soon (or ever). Funny thing about animal abuse, in Georgia, at a point in the 1970s (not sure how far this goes before or after that time), you could get sentenced to the chain gang for three things: rape, murder, and animal abuse. Animal abuse is taken seriously, but what defines abuse is what is at question. Not too long ago, PETA went after dog sledding and veterinarian groups, AKC, and I believe the SPCA basically told them they were wrong because the dogs loved doing it, had been doing it for centuries, had been bred to do it for centuries, and that it would actually be crueler to not let them sled.
What my point was is that when you say animals were "born" to do something, in fact no they weren't, we just tamed them into doing what we want them to do.
I have no problem with people having pets and the like, as long as they are treated well and aren't whipped and forced into competing.
Most rationale humans see a difference between a human and an animal for starters.
I do and I accept that animals are a part of the food chain that we (in most cases) are on top of. My analogy was made to say that even though some slave owners treated their slaves well, it doesn't make what they did any less wrong.
No matter how well they treat the horses, they still force them to compete and torture the animal to get him/her to do so. How can you not see that as anything but cruelty?
And yes. PETA has become a joke. Anyone who compares Tyson's to Nazis loses all credibility with me.
So your issue is the whip. If they take the whip away, it'll be something else. Some horses are work horses, these are race horses. Some dogs are used on the police force, some are used to help the blind. I guess these are not ok?? Or, because no whip is used they are OK??? I'm confused.
How bout the invisible fences?? Or bark collars?? I trained dogs in the past, and will tell you that the pinch collar I had to use was much much more humane than the regular collar I used as the dog was constantly pulling and hurting himself before the pinch collar taught him not to. I suppose I should have just let him off the leash as leash corrections are cruelty??
We can go further. How bout cats made to use a litter box??? Really, of course the cat doesn't like it, they try to bury it when their done. Many say it humiliates them. My old roommate fed crickets to his snake. OMG the torture.
Lets get real. These animals are very well cared for and loved at the top end of this sport at least. Today you gripe about the leash, tomorrow its because they are kept in stable and not allowed to roam.