Goose Gossage elected to HOF

...breaking news at cbs.sportsline.com. He was the only player elected this year.

--Pet

The full results:

Rich "Goose" Gossage 466 (85.8%)
Jim Rice 392 (72.2%)
Andre Dawson 358 (65.9%)
Bert Blyleven 336 (61.9%)
Lee Smith 235 (43.3%)
Jack Morris 233 (42.9%)
Tommy John 158 (29.1%)
Tim Raines 132 (24.3%)
Mark McGwire 128 (23.6%)
Alan Trammell 99 (18.2%)
Dave Concepcion 88 (16.2%)
Don Mattingly 86 (15.8%)
Dave Parker 82 (15.1%)
Dale Murphy 75 (13.8%)
Harold Baines 28 (5.2%)
Rod Beck 2 (0.4%)
Travis Fryman 2 (0.4%)
Robb Nen 2 (0.4%)
Shawon Dunston 1 (0.2%)
Chuck Finley 1 (0.2%)
David Justice 1 (0.2%)
Chuck Knoblauch 1 (0.2%)
Todd Stottlemyre 1 (0.2%)
Brady Anderson 0
Jose Rijo 0




Tim Raines. 24.3%. That's horrifying.

The more I think about it, Bert Blyleven is a much bigger snub than Tim Raines.

The following is the list of players who posted an ERA at least 25% better than average 10 times or more:

Pete Alexander, Bert Blyleven, Roger Clemens, Lefty Grove, Tom Glavine, Randy Johnson, Walter Johnson, Pedro Martinez, Christy Mathewson, Greg Maddux, Jim Palmer, Kid Nichols, Mike Mussina, Tom Seaver, Cy young

1) Knobber's career was cut short and without much knowlege of any career limiting injury it puzzles me why he didnt play longer and have more productive seasons in his early 30's.
2) I want to know who voted for Shawon Dunston... because somewhere there is a village missing their idiot.

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Originally Posted by QHowes

2) I want to know who voted for Shawon Dunston... because somewhere there is a village missing their idiot.

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It was probably just a "token vote" much like Jim DeShaies got a couple years back. It's the writer's way of giving the guy a little appreciation, knowing he's actually not going to get elected. I don't really have a problem with that, although, of course, it'd be much better if everybody just went down the list of candidates, and placed a check next to anybody who he believed was actually HOF material, and left blank anybody who he believed was not HOF material.

Well there goes my prediction of the Class of 2008 being Jose Rijo, Todd Stottlemyre, and Chuck Finley LOL

I think he deserved it. He got 86 percent of the vote. However I was suprised that Jim Rice did not make it, barely, and that Concepcion and Lee Smith got such low amount of votes. Good Job Goose, even though you were a Yankee!

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Originally Posted by yankee hater

Well it was his first ballot. How does that compare to others on their first ballot?

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I'm not exactly sure, but it doesn't bode well for future election unless he makes a Bruce Sutter-like rise.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

The more I think about it, Bert Blyleven is a much bigger snub than Tim Raines.

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B I N G O !!!!!

How does Bert Byleven NOT get elected? This guys stats look great. He was a good pitcher, 4k+ innings, 3k+ strike outs. Pretty good career E.RA...287 wins. I mean, does he need 300 wins? He didnt play for contenders every year, but dannggg....

He doesn't get elected because the voters fail to look beyond his mediocre winning percentage and lack of many 20-win seasons, and then also cite his low All Star appearances and Cy Young voting records.

They conveniently forget that those two awards are heavily influenced by Win-Loss record, so the argument is really one in the same - he played for medicore teams and got poor run support.

Every method I've seen that gives Blyleven average run support (such as Baseball-Reference's Neutralize Stats and Baseball Prospectus's Translations) puts Blyleven over 300 wins.

The facts are that Blyleven was a workhorse pitcher for a long time who may not have regularly ranked as the best pitcher in the year, but by any metric besides Wins, was always one of the top pitchers. He finished in the top 10 in ERA 10 times, strikeouts 15 times, and strikeout:walk ratio 16 times. He actually placed in the top-3 in K:BB ratio 9 times. He placed in the top 10 in adjusted ERA (ERA+) 12 times. WHIP 11 times.

He's so overly qualified that it's an absolute travesty that he's had to wait this long.

I can't believe that Rice didn't get elected, I mean come on, this guys isn't a HOFer but he has the support to be one...

I can't believe that Raines only got 24% of the vote. McGwire snub is also a big one as well. He saved Baseball, who cares how he did it, but that with the 95' M's, the yankees rise to power in the mid-late 90's than the Sosa/McGwire Chase all saved baseball... They are cheering for him in 98' and that moment was one of the most special moments in the history of the game. McGwire saved baseball, he made fans come back to the park. His his power, he has the stats to go to the HOF. And he never tested positive for steriods....just sad.

McGwire had 128 votes last year as well!

Woo! Another Ex-Mariner who's in the HOF! That makes a grand total of two!! Yes!!! :p

I cant believe Rice was like 15 votes short

Yea, Rice should get in. Blyleven, of course. Big Mac as well, but that's a whole different thread... (and one that we really don't need to re-hash again).

wtg Goose. I still love that stache.

Never realized he pitched so many innings, alittle over 1800 innings,thats twice as many innings as Mo Rivera. Now if we could only get Lee Smith in, I'll be happy.

I am still wishing Sparky Lyle will get elected by the Vet's committee.

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Originally Posted by Red Sox Fan 734

I cant believe Rice was like 15 votes short

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What is soo amazing is that he was 15 votes short, or that he got that much support? His career is almost HOF worthy...and after 14 years on the ballot he falls 15 votes shy. That is a shame :(

Rather than rehash all of the previous discussion we had on Jim Rice, here's some of the "high points", from my perspective at least, that we had earlier:

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Originally Posted by ohms_law

Interesting. I'd be really interested in hearing the reasoning behind "I just think that Rice is the most problematic."

Personally, I'm a big Black Ink type of person. It's certainly not a foolproof, end all, be all measure by any means. However, it does provide a good unbiased starting point. All three are marginal (especially considering that they were all mainly DH's), and with more choices in the mix it wold likely be easy to overlook all of them. However, just between the three of them, Jim Rice leads by a country mile in Black Ink. Considering their whole work though, I'd have to give it to Rice. I mean sure, he played a couple fewer years then Evans. Evans was a bit more disciplined at the plate as well. You just can't ignore the difference in power (and not just home runs, either. total power) and Rice has a slight edge in contact as well.
The biggest things for me though are that Rice had more speed (doubles and triples), and most importantly he was much more consistent. His deltas (change in rate stats) are much smaller from year to year than Evans' are. You can't buy that consistency, and you can't teach it either. That's pure skill.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Jim Rice was also greatly consistent at making multiple outs with one swing ;)

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Originally Posted by ohms_law

I don't dispute the importance of OBP, by any means. You know that.
However, I'll gladly accept a 10 or 20 point loss in OBP for almost 100 points in slugging any time. Especially when that slugging is primarily doubles and triples from a guy who seems to be able to put the ball in play where it needs to go. Not only that, but I'd never have to worry about Jim Rice's performance. The guy was obviously a workhorse with tons of natural talent. Just look at the consistency of all of his rate stats... the guy basically hit his career averages every single year that he played (with the obvious exceptions of '74 and '89). That's just awesome.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

I wasn't referring to OBP.

I was referring to double plays, hence multiple outs with one swing. :p

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Originally Posted by ohms_law

OK, but he didn't hit into that many double plays. He consistently hit into double plays right around the 10% mark, which is about average overall.

Besides, like robin mentioned, he made up for it. He was hitting in the 4 hole for most of his career, after all.



meh.. this is more fun!
:D

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I'm not going to quote the whole thing, but I highly recommend considering my post here (from later on in the same thread): http://forum.sportsmogul.com/showpos...4&postcount=47
I thought it was a decent analysis, at least.
;)

1. Admittedly, I'm a biased Mattingly fan, but I still can't get over that Kirby Puckett was a first ballotter and Don doesn't get more respect. Yeah, I hear the argument that Puckett had a more consistant career, but I don't follow. He only had four poor seasons. Honestly, I don't believe either should be in the Hall of Fame, I'm just amazed at the disparity. Alan Trammell got more votes than Mattingly???

2. If Gossage is in, Lee Smith more than deserves it.

3. At first, I was still surprised that Dawson hasn't gotten in yet, however, that OBP is a little weak. And only three seasons with more than 30 homeruns.

4. Jim Rice is a stronger candidate on that list than Gossage.

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Originally Posted by Lakeman

1. Admittedly, I'm a biased Mattingly fan, but I still can't get over that Kirby Puckett was a first ballotter and Don doesn't get more respect. Yeah, I hear the argument that Puckett had a more consistant career, but I don't follow. He only had four poor seasons. Honestly, I don't believe either should be in the Hall of Fame, I'm just amazed at the disparity. Alan Trammell got more votes than Mattingly???

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Trammell compares very favorably to most of the shortstops already in the Hall. I'm not sold on his candidacy due to his inconsistency from year to year, but he's a better candidate than Mattingly.

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4. Jim Rice is a stronger candidate on that list than Gossage.

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Not true. Gossage had a terrific peak as one of the best relievers ever. Rice had a very good, short peak.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Not true. Gossage had a terrific peak as one of the best relievers ever. Rice had a very good, short peak.

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Gossage also had to spin his wheels for quite awhile on a very bad team (the 70's White Sox), they even used him as a starter one year! That certainly didn't help his statistics. He ran up some impressive stats once he got on good teams.

Interesting.

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Originally Posted by boomboom

McGwire snub is also a big one as well. He saved Baseball, who cares how he did it, but that with the 95' M's, the yankees rise to power in the mid-late 90's than the Sosa/McGwire Chase all saved baseball... They are cheering for him in 98' and that moment was one of the most special moments in the history of the game. McGwire saved baseball, he made fans come back to the park. His his power, he has the stats to go to the HOF. And he never tested positive for steriods....just sad.

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he barely has 1600 hits and 1 lonely gold glove....

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Originally Posted by Wassit3

he barely has 1600 hits and 1 lonely gold glove....

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lol

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Originally Posted by boomboom

lol

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:p

http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mcgwima01.shtml

Actually Goosage's induction (with Sutter's & Ecks a few years back) leads me a BM question....shouldn't the BM HOF engine be reviewed too ??

I mean I have had numerous times an all time Saves leader with 600+ saves (let a lone 500) go into retirement without even a glimmer of chance of being inducted :(

I think Dawson, and Jim Rice should both be going in this year along with Goose.

Im still holding out for Shawon Dunston lol