Mitchell report due today
I wish I had the day off just to watch the press conferences, but I have to work so I'll have to settle for the replays late tonight.
Just heard ESPN say that the yankees trainer fingered Roger Clemons as a regular user. I've heard there will be at least 80 names of former and current players on the list.
Could be a interesting day in the baseball world. The more I read the more I think Mitchell will not have any grounding breaking news to report. The several reports that I've read about the investigation pretty much says they didn't know what they were doing. I believe the only losers of this report will be the players, not the owners, GM's, trainers, or coaches.
I think maybe we should put a * next to Selig's name when he retires as commish.
Re: Mitchell report due today
This is just my personal opinion
Baseball (ie MLB) loved drugs in the late '80's/'90's - the sport was ill,financially at least, & embraced the Sosa/Bonds/McGwire's as helping get Americans (& the world) fall back in love.
As other drug tainted sports (Cycling & Weightlifting come to mind) there has been a shift in ideology - this is not due to getting the sport clean but pure & simple economics.
Let's simply look at the supposed effects* of steroids:
1) increased power &
2) quicker & better recovery from injuries.
So basically a .250 & 15 HR guy turns into a .252 & 30 HR guy & players play 150 games instead of 130.What does that mean ? Not much except when FA is thrown in....under FA the .250/15 guy would command 1/2 million at the time,whereas the latter would demand 5x or even 10x that figure because he played more & produced more.THE OWNERS just don't want to PAY now,simple as that,10x market value for a "false" production.
Secondly,as steroids allowed players quicker & better recovery players played PAST their supposed retirement ( ie fall off) age & re-entered FA for a 2nd or 3rd time (you can put Bonds/Clemens in this category).
However,as FA prices increased for average players SUDDENLY the MLB (ie the owners) decided to pull the "plug" on the miracle of power increase & longetivity by banning Steroids & HGH (under pressure from Congress & WADA) but by NOT testing for them basically "turned a blind eye".Yet,the problem would not go away,as the public demanded a "clean game" (helped by sports writers' ofcourse,smelling a good story!) & the external authorities too.
Testing came in but the MLB STILL TODAY does not test HGH nor uses blood samples for Steroid tracing (unlike Cycling or the Olympics) --- heck Bonds is on record (BALCO trial) to have used every possible "aid" (including a Female HGH & a "Horse" steroid plus the famous clear & cream steroid) yet never been found guilty by the MLB testing of steroids,when he admidted using the BALCO products to the media as testing was being done!
The Mitchell report in itself is a self fulfilling prophecy - as it was intended to show what was already known,that steroids were used - yet will be totally inaccurate & useless.Why ?
1) because it was done "after the horse had bolted" -- ie like any investigation if the "cheaters" & "dealers" KNOW you are coming they will simply shift their production/usage elsewhere or use a new "product" which is untestable - just go onto any I-net pharmacy site or bodybuilding forum & you can easily find untraceable wonder products ;);
2) because Mitchell was not allowed to interview today's players' (thanks again the Union !) & thus was forced to interview past players' & thus cannot "judge" today's game.**
3) He did the investigation without the aid of the Anti doping authorities (WADA nor even USADA)
This is for show!
* Supposed in the sense that there has never been a case study of the usage of steroids on baseball players & can only be shown relative to real studies on body builders & Weighlifters.However,even if there was simply a "placebo" effect then the effects would still be positive.
** unlike Baseball,Cycling has taken PED's seriously,investigating daily---- using Blood sampling,off season samples & even Full season log (ie you have to be able to account for your whereabouts during the 10 month cycling season even if NOT competing & provide coroborative evidence.).
Also countries of the EU have adopted the 2002 Steroids Act & "raid" events whilst they occur to find evidence (yearly raids on the Tour de France & Giro d'Italy have lead to multiple arrests & cases such as 1999 Festina case or the banning just last year of Vinokorov & Rassmussen in the Tour).Weightlifting & Athletics have also started (since Athens 2004) used blood sampling & WADA guidelines leading to bans on Marion Jones,Gaitlin etc etc...
Re: Mitchell report due today
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FRENCHREDSOX
banning Steroids & HGM
HGH! ;)
In other news, I agree with you. This is all just baseball trying to save itself for turning a blind eye to the issue for so long.
Re: Mitchell report due today
I agree that this is pretty much entirely for show, although it will give us greater knowledge of who the cheaters were and allow us to view their accomplishments with a jaundiced eye.
However, neither baseball's management nor its union want a true, Olympic-level drug testing regimen. The union would see such a regimen as a threat to the fortunes of its members; the management can see only negatives from implementing such rules in the media as if such a regimen were to be used and no cheaters were to be found, they wouldn't get any credit, but take all the blame if even one such cheater slipped through.
Furthermore, management doesn't really *want* to police the players -- God knows what else they'd have to find out -- and they see the increase in 'taters as good for the box office gate.
What both sides really want is a *media bandaid*. They both want credit for a "powerful" drug testing regiment which will be deliberately designed to fall short of its goals. For example, urine testers will have to make parking arrangements at stadiums ahead of time, which will give advance notice to players that testers are arriving. Or a regiment which doesn't provide "chaperones" to players who can't provide urine, or doesn't have a GPS/sign-in system which lets testers know where players are at all times, like the Olympics. In short, both sides want a Potemkin-drug testing program which looks cool to the untrained eye but is full of loopholes.
This way, both management and labor can walk hand in hand to the media, and say, "See? Problem solved! Now why don't you watch our nice players hit some home runs?"
At least, the Mitchell report will provide for some entertainment, and it will hopefully condemn the players' union for its lack of cooperation.
--Pet
Re: Mitchell report due today
I hope it doesn't piss of the government, because Selig and Mitchell probably would hate to see them start their own investigation. Even though I wouldn't have much confidence in the government to investigate anything at this point, but at least it wouldn't be a baseball insider doing it.
Re: Mitchell report due today
From the San Francisco Chronicle:
Batboy key to report
Breakthrough for Mitchell
I'm just glad that Batman's son is following in his daddy's footsteps. You have to turn to superheroes to get any justice in this country these days.
--Pet
Re: Mitchell report due today
Re: Mitchell report due today
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Reade
I hope it doesn't piss of the government, because Selig and Mitchell probably would hate to see them start their own investigation. Even though I wouldn't have much confidence in the government to investigate anything at this point, but at least it wouldn't be a baseball insider doing it.
Wouldn't the logic (& here I am playing Devil's advocate) be that you ask the suspects (in this case the players',trainers',doctors',dealers/pharmacy companies,pharmacy producers*) the questions on the problem ? The Mitchell report when done was ALLOWED to interview GM's only....now that is like interviewing the Accountant of the Colombian Cartel on the effects of the drug addiction/industry.....:eek:
* note BALCO head Vincent Conte was not ever interviewed.....that is MADNESS!
Re: Mitchell report due today
The Mitchell investigation interviewed more than just general managers...:confused:
Re: Mitchell report due today
Quote:
Let's simply look at the supposed effects* of steroids:
1) increased power &
2) quicker & better recovery from injuries.
From what I know about steroids (I have/had friends that used them), their effect is quicker and better recovery, period. This leads to more power and quicker recovery from injuries. In weight lifting, you are basically injuring yourself, but the rebuilding strengthens you in the process. Steroids allow you quicker recovery so you can lift more often. You still have to put the work in. HGH, that I know very little about.
Re: Mitchell report due today
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3142651
They interviewed people all the way down to batboys.
Re: Mitchell report due today
Re: Mitchell report due today
Quote:
The Mitchell investigation interviewed more than just general managers...:confused:
Yes it did BUT only GMs were "forced" to by the bosses,where as:
Quote:
He had no subpoena power or other leverage to compel players to participate. The MLB Players Association, led by Donald Fehr and Gene Orza, said it never ordered or even suggested that its players not cooperate;but of the 750 players in the major leagues, none has been identified as having spoken voluntarily to Mitchell's investigators.
Quote:
For example, while it was widely believed that each of the 30 general managers was interviewed, scouts, front office special assistants and farm directors were not all asked to interview.
Quote:
Mitchell requested removable media -- computer hard drives, for example -- from some departments of each of the 30 teams, while also requesting cell phone and e-mail records from some individuals. Some teams, such as the Baltimore Orioles, Los Angeles Angels and Oakland Athletics, complied. Others, such as Minnesota and Cleveland, were among the more reluctant to cooperate with Mitchell's requests
Quote:
it became clear to investigators that, like the players, some of the clubs weren't particularly interested in participating, either. Selig's office sent letters to each of the 30 teams almost as soon as the commissioner announced the investigation's creation, ordering them to comply with Mitchell's requests. Many team employees -- especially the support staff, strength coaches and trainers -- regarded that approach as a threat to their job security.
So basically they interviewed the non using/dealing members' of the sport,thus my analogy with Accountants ;) ....
Re: Mitchell report due today
Okay...but..
Quote:
Originally Posted by FRENCHREDSOX
The Mitchell report when done was ALLOWED to interview GM's only
That isn't true. They were allowed to interview anybody...
Re: Mitchell report due today
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoustonGM
Okay...but..
That isn't true. They were allowed to interview anybody...
Who were allowed to refuse ;) eg all MLB players' except those who were outed (eg Ankiel/Gibbons etc) the rest weren't "officially" approached....but what the heck!
Quote:
He had no subpoena power or other leverage to compel players to participate. The MLB Players Association, led by Donald Fehr and Gene Orza, said it never ordered or even suggested that its players not cooperate;but of the 750 players in the major leagues, none has been identified as having spoken voluntarily to Mitchell's investigators.
