Yankees, Twins talking about Santana trade

NEW YORK - The New York Yankees and Minnesota Twins have started trade talks involving Johan Santana.

Yankees senior vice president Hank Steinbrenner said Monday that discussions are ongoing but it was too early to tell whether they would lead to a deal. He did not detail how far talks had progressed.

“I don’t want to get into that at this point, as far as what they want, what we’re willing to give and all that,” he said. “It’s preliminary right now.”

Santana is eligible for free agency after the 2008 season, and the Twins have been trying to sign the two-time AL Cy Young Award winner to an extension.

Asked whether the Twins had said they would consider a trade, Steinbrenner responded: “Oh, yeah.”

The New York Mets, Boston Red Sox and Los Angeles Dodgers also are thought to be interested in Santana, who is far better than any of the starting pitchers available on the free-agent market.

Santana’s agent, Peter Greenberg, has not spoken publicly about his talks with the Twins, who last week lost free-agent center fielder Torii Hunter to the Los Angeles Angels. Sports Illustrated reported that the Twins have offered a four-year extension to Santana for $80 million, an offer that would be much less than what Santana is seeking. According to the story, the pitcher is looking for a deal larger than the $126 million Barry Zito received from the Giants last season.

Santana, a left-hander who turns 29 in March, has a 93-44 record with a 3.22 ERA in eight major league seasons and is owed $13.25 million next year. Minnesota would want top prospects in any deal and while Steinbrenner previously said he wouldn’t trade some of the Yankees’ top young pitchers for third baseman Miguel Cabrera, he didn’t rule out a deal for a pitcher.

Yankees general manager Brian Cashman said he has received repeated inquiries from teams about Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain and Ian Kennedy.

Santana has a no-trade provision in his contract, and a team acquiring him likely would want to discuss an extension. That means if the teams agreed to a trade, there probably would be a 72-hour window to work out a new contract.

After reaching agreements to re-sign Alex Rodriguez, Mariano Rivera, Jorge Posada and Jose Molina — deals that are awaiting completion — Steinbrenner said the Yankees have turned their attention to relievers. Cashman has said the team hopes to keep Luis Vizcaino.

“Obviously, I think the big thing for us now is shoring up the bullpen all that we can,” Steinbrenner said. “Brian is looking into several different things.”

Steinbrenner said Rodriguez likely will take a physical this week.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21982130/

If minnesota [where i live] trade Santana to the yanks it would be like the yaks trading Jeter to Boston. It would kill the minnesota fan base and most likely Santana won't work as hard because he'll have a guarenteed contract with NEw York.

If the Steinbrenners are getting directly involved in this, then it means they want it to happen and will do whatever it takes to make it happen. Including overruling Cashman on trading one or more of their young arms, if need be.

Why is this even a story?

They've made offers for him in the past. I'm sure I'm not the only one here that frequently checks MLBTradeRumors and there have been tons of posts and updates about Santana-Twins-Yankees in the past few months and even some prior to the trade deadline, if I'm not mistaken.

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Originally Posted by beerchaser

If the Steinbrenners are getting directly involved in this, then it means they want it to happen and will do whatever it takes to make it happen. Including overruling Cashman on trading one or more of their young arms, if need be.

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would giving up Hughes or Joba for a proven not so old vet be so bad?

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Originally Posted by mnstonecold

If minnesota [where i live] trade Santana to the yanks it would be like the yaks trading Jeter to Boston. It would kill the minnesota fan base and most likely Santana won't work as hard because he'll have a guarenteed contract with NEw York.

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It would be nothing like trading Jeter to Boston. There's no heated rivalry between the Twins and Yankees. Yes, it will upset Twins fans, but I think comparing to a Jeter to Boston trade is a bit of a stretch.

And to say Santana won't work as hard is ridiculous. He has had a guarenteed contract for a few years now. The notion that baseball players universally decide to dog it after being gaurenteed money is ridiculous. Santana is consntantly praised for his incredible work ethic, something that is likely part of his personality. I don't think a lot of money and a move to New York is going to make him lose his work ethic.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

It would be nothing like trading Jeter to Boston. There's no heated rivalry between the Twins and Yankees. Yes, it will upset Twins fans, but I think comparing to a Jeter to Boston trade is a bit of a stretch.

And to say Santana won't work as hard is ridiculous. He has had a guarenteed contract for a few years now. The notion that baseball players universally decide to dog it after being gaurenteed money is ridiculous. Santana is consntantly praised for his incredible work ethic, something that is likely part of his personality. I don't think a lot of money and a move to New York is going to make him lose his work ethic.

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yeah but would you give up hughes or joba for him??

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Originally Posted by Wassit3

yeah but would you give up hughes or joba for him??

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Yes as Santana has proven that he is a REAL yearly ACE - those 2 you mention HAVE the possibility to good but as yet have like 1/2 season experience & both have had injury doubts....but then again as a Red Sox fan I really do wish Santana does NOT go to the Yankees....;)

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Originally Posted by FRENCHREDSOX

Yes as Santana has proven that he is a REAL yearly ACE - those 2 you mention HAVE the possibility to good but as yet have like 1/2 season experience & both have had injury doubts....but then again as a Red Sox fan I really do wish Santana does NOT go to the Yankees....;)

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I tend agree, and 29 is not so old for a pitcher, he possibly has another 11 years or so in his arm...

I like it if they don't give up too much. I don't want to see them give away Cano or Melky...2 names mentioned. If they have to give up pitching I would rather see Kennedy go than Hughes or Joba.

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Originally Posted by RickD

I like it if they don't give up too much. I don't want to see them give away Cano or Melky...2 names mentioned. If they have to give up pitching I would rather see Kennedy go than Hughes or Joba.

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Ian looks like he has potential too but he is 23 or so, getting old it seems by todays rush em up standards...

Santana saw what happened with A-Rod in New York so I dont think he wont slack off.

Yankees will get him

I bet if the Yanks get Santana Andy will go ahead and retire.

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Originally Posted by Wassit3

yeah but would you give up hughes or joba for him??

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Yes.

I'd give up Hughes, Cabrera, and one other good prospect (like an Austin Jackson), and even another so-so prospect, if that's what it took...provided I was able to sign Santana to an extension prior to the deal.

Santana has gotten past the real tough parts of a pitcher's career. Young pitchers aren't likely to reach their full potential. As great as Hughes CAN be, Santana IS the best pitcher in baseball, and at 29 with no injury history, he's the best bet there is to stay a great pitcher into his late 30s.

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Originally Posted by YEAH DAAAAWG

Why is this even a story?

They've made offers for him in the past. I'm sure I'm not the only one here that frequently checks MLBTradeRumors and there have been tons of posts and updates about Santana-Twins-Yankees in the past few months and even some prior to the trade deadline, if I'm not mistaken.

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You actually read that site?? :eek:

I read MLBTR too, sure some of what they have is garbage but occasionally something good too. Sometimes they have links to good stories elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Wassit3

would giving up Hughes or Joba for a proven not so old vet be so bad?

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I don't have strong feelings one way or the other about the Yanks getting Santana, but I do think it's ultimately going to happen, along with an enormous new contract.

I have no prob with it. The Yankees have the money to spend and have built a strong farm system. It's not their fault that they have one of the biggest fan bases in baseball and can afford it. They did a great job with their system...a few years ago they had nothing in the minors, now they have enough to get the best pitcher in baseball. More power to them. I just wish my Phillies owners would stop pinching the pockets and spend some of the money they clearly have.

Santana isn't about to be traded to the Yankees. There is no way that Minnesota would jeopardize their chance to win the World Series next year by trading the best pitcher in baseball. Minnesota is the favorite in the AL Central next year with Morneau, Mauer, Santana, and a healthy Liriano. They don't need to start selling the nucleus of their team that finished 1st in 2006, the last time that Liriano was healthy.

To trade Santana for somebody like Phillip Hughes, who might be great in the future is simply not a logical thing to do.

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Originally Posted by LLP

Santana isn't about to be traded to the Yankees. There is no way that Minnesota would jeopardize their chance to win the World Series next year by trading the best pitcher in baseball. Minnesota is the favorite in the AL Central next year with Morneau, Mauer, Santana, and a healthy Liriano. They don't need to start selling the nucleus of their team that finished 1st in 2006, the last time that Liriano was healthy.

To trade Santana for somebody like Phillip Hughes, who might be great in the future is simply not a logical thing to do.

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That's the gamble....but sport & especially trades are as much a question of luck as logic.As this year it is an abysmal FA Pitching group & it is almost certain that Santana will not sign an extension with the Twins,their GM is "testing" the market for his "star" player.

The likely hood is that he will start in Minny next & DEPENDING on the Twins position at deadline THEN they may move him.


However,if the Yankees (or whoever) throw at them a "nasty" deal eg Melky,Wang,Hughes & Chamberlain which solves both their short & long term needs then anything is possible.;)

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Originally Posted by LLP

Santana isn't about to be traded to the Yankees. There is no way that Minnesota would jeopardize their chance to win the World Series next year by trading the best pitcher in baseball. Minnesota is the favorite in the AL Central next year with Morneau, Mauer, Santana, and a healthy Liriano. They don't need to start selling the nucleus of their team that finished 1st in 2006, the last time that Liriano was healthy.

To trade Santana for somebody like Phillip Hughes, who might be great in the future is simply not a logical thing to do.

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The Twins are far from the favorite in the AL Central next year. Yes, they have a better chance of contending WITH Santana, but they could contend without him.

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Originally Posted by FRENCHREDSOX

However,if the Yankees (or whoever) throw at them a "nasty" deal eg Melky,Wang,Hughes & Chamberlain which solves both their short & long term needs then anything is possible

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That is a trade I would absolutely not do if I was the Yankees. That's just crazy. Trading away just Hughes is one thing - Santana replaces him in the rotation. But trading away 3/5ths of your projected rotation? That'd just be absolutely looney.

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Minnesota is the favorite in the AL Central next year

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On what planet? Someone forget that both Cleveland and Detroit has a better team than Minnesota right now. Morneau is only a .275 career hitter averaging about 100 strikeouts a year, Mauer is a decent hitter with no power and isn't a big run producer, where's the offense going to come from?

They better trade him now and get something for him, because the Twins won't give up the money he will be asking for at years end.

While it's possible the Yankees will make the Twins an offer too good to turn down during the off-season, I think it's most likely that the Twins won't move Santana right away. They'll wait to see where they are as the trade deadline approaches. I've said it before, but if they're in a position to win it all, they'll hold on to him and then let him walk as a free agent; if they don't think they can win in 2008 then they'll make a deal before the deadline.

God, I can just imagine what he'll be asking for if the Twins do manage to make it to the series...

The only way I see the Twins keeping Santana into May/June is if they somehow think someone will panic and give them a better deal near the deadline. I rather doubt that though. They stand to lose too much by letting him walk after 2008, pennant race or no, so they ain't gonna keep him. They can't take a chance on maybe, possibly, getting a better deal at the deadline (the other way around is more likely), and they would risk public outcry if they did move him in the middle of a pennant race. He'll get moved before spring training.

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That is a trade I would absolutely not do if I was the Yankees. That's just crazy. Trading away just Hughes is one thing - Santana replaces him in the rotation. But trading away 3/5ths of your projected rotation? That'd just be absolutely looney.

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Originally Posted by dps

While it's possible the Yankees will make the Twins an offer too good to turn down during the off-season, I think it's most likely that the Twins won't move Santana right away. They'll wait to see where they are as the trade deadline approaches. I've said it before, but if they're in a position to win it all, they'll hold on to him and then let him walk as a free agent; if they don't think they can win in 2008 then they'll make a deal before the deadline.

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Which is WHAT I said ...;)

I don't think that the Yankees offering a package that includes 3/5ths of their projected starting rotation is possible.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

I don't think that the Yankees offering a package that includes 3/5ths of their projected starting rotation is possible.

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doesn't make sense you're right but George has done crazy stuff before...

...like giving Carl Pavano $10 million a year...

Havent read this thread yet to see if this has been mentioned but Bostons the front runner to get Santana now!

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Originally Posted by beerchaser

The only way I see the Twins keeping Santana into May/June is if they somehow think someone will panic and give them a better deal near the deadline. I rather doubt that though. They stand to lose too much by letting him walk after 2008, pennant race or no, so they ain't gonna keep him. They can't take a chance on maybe, possibly, getting a better deal at the deadline (the other way around is more likely), and they would risk public outcry if they did move him in the middle of a pennant race. He'll get moved before spring training.

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If they trade him before the season, it's a signal to everyone on the team and the fans that they don't think they have a chance to win in 2008. I don't think that they can afford to send that signal unless they're pretty sure that they can't win, and go into a rebuilding mode. Really, I personally don't think that they can win in 2008 and do think that they should start rebuilding, but I don't think the Twins see it that way. (And if I ran the team, I'd find a way to sign Santana and rebuild around him, but that's not how things get done nowdays.)

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Originally Posted by dps

If they trade him before the season, it's a signal to everyone on the team and the fans that they don't think they have a chance to win in 2008. I don't think that they can afford to send that signal unless they're pretty sure that they can't win, and go into a rebuilding mode. Really, I personally don't think that they can win in 2008 and do think that they should start rebuilding, but I don't think the Twins see it that way. (And if I ran the team, I'd find a way to sign Santana and rebuild around him, but that's not how things get done nowdays.)

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You don't build around a 29 year old pitcher, whose only going to play once every 5 days when healthy, no matter how good he is. You build around a young, every day hitter like Young, Mauer, or Morneau.

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Originally Posted by dps

If they trade him before the season, it's a signal to everyone on the team and the fans that they don't think they have a chance to win in 2008. I don't think that they can afford to send that signal unless they're pretty sure that they can't win, and go into a rebuilding mode. Really, I personally don't think that they can win in 2008 and do think that they should start rebuilding, but I don't think the Twins see it that way. (And if I ran the team, I'd find a way to sign Santana and rebuild around him, but that's not how things get done nowdays.)

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I hear you dps but you have to be realistic and consider who is in control of the Twins. Pohlad is stinking rich but still tight with a dollar. He's not going to give Santana market value, so the Twins have to extract as much value as they can for him, not just for next year but the next 3-5 years. It appears that the Twins may have their dream scenario building, with the Yankers and Red Sux :D getting in a bidding war. The only thing better for them would be to get the Dodgers and Angels involved too because of their stocked farm systems, but from what I hear the Dodgers may be more interested in Erik Bedard. The Angels could be a factor for Johan, but they just gave Torii Hunter WAY too much money and they are actually looking to trade away pitching for another hitter, supposedly Miguel Cabrera. Both teams are apparently caught up in this Cabrera ****, where the Marlins are trying to play the LA teams against each other. Both of them are going to wait until the price comes down, I think.

The Twins can contend without Santana, as long as they upgrade their offense.

In 2007, the Twins were 79-83. They scored 718 runs, and allowed 725 runs. Santana pitched 219 innings and ended up with a 3.33 ERA. If we figure that they replace him with an "average" pitcher who will end up with about a 4.20 ERA and everything else stays about the same that means that they'll allow about 21 more runs against or 745 runs.

At 745 runs against, they need to score about 896 runs in order to have a decent chance at a 95-67 record or better. Adding run production does improve your chances faster, but really they need to be able to do that without compromising their run prevention at all, at this point.

Don't forget Francisco Liriano is coming back.

And note, I said "contend" not "contend for league's best record" ;)

Boston gains in Santana race

As Red_Sox_Fan_734 pointed out, it looks like the Sox are now in the lead for Santana. I have to ask, as a red sox fan - why?? We just went out and overpaid for Schilling to return ($8+ mil with incentives on top of that), and gave Lowell a huge deal. I know the World Series win probably generated a huge cash influx, but...we already have an amazing rotation - and its overfilled! Beckett, Schilling, Matsuzaka, Wakefield, Lester, Tavarez, and Buchholz waiting for a spot...the last few years we haven't even had space to put Lester and Buchholz in unless someone else had an injury. And this isn't even mentioning the spot-starters we've dealt away (Kason Gabbard, Bronson Arroyo) or relegated to bullpen work (Kyle Snyder).

This is one deal I don't want to see - we've already won two WS in four years, we already have a stellar rotation, and we already have the second-highest payroll in baseball. I don't want us to get like the Yankees, and start stockpiling expensive talent in some hoarding fashion...I am perfectly happy seeing the young guys excel, like Papelbon, Pedroia, and Youkillis have. If we bring in Santana, and have to pay him $15-$19mil a year, along with Beckett and Matsuzaka...well, I just don't want to be looked at the way the Yankees are.

Unless the Twins are using our deal as a pushing point to get more from other clubs, or we are trying to block the deal to the Yankees, I am not sure if I see the bright side of this.

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Originally Posted by Alloutwar

Boston gains in Santana race

As Red_Sox_Fan_734 pointed out, it looks like the Sox are now in the lead for Santana. I have to ask, as a red sox fan - why?? We just went out and overpaid for Schilling to return ($8+ mil with incentives on top of that), and gave Lowell a huge deal. I know the World Series win probably generated a huge cash influx, but...we already have an amazing rotation - and its overfilled! Beckett, Schilling, Matsuzaka, Wakefield, Lester, Tavarez, and Buchholz waiting for a spot

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The thing is Schilling & Wakefield cannot be counted on to make 20+ starts (as seen by the last couple of years) - so suddenly if they do fail then your rotation is Beckett,Dice-K,Lester,Tavarez & Buchholz....When you consider the age of Buchholz,the "Lester" situation & Tavarez's inconsistency the Sox aren't as loaded as they appear on paper.

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Originally Posted by Alloutwar

...the last few years we haven't even had space to put Lester and Buchholz in unless someone else had an injury. And this isn't even mentioning the spot-starters we've dealt away (Kason Gabbard, Bronson Arroyo) or relegated to bullpen work (Kyle Snyder).

This is one deal I don't want to see - we've already won two WS in four years, we already have a stellar rotation, and we already have the second-highest payroll in baseball. I don't want us to get like the Yankees, and start stockpiling expensive talent in some hoarding fashion...I am perfectly happy seeing the young guys excel, like Papelbon, Pedroia, and Youkillis have. If we bring in Santana, and have to pay him $15-$19mil a year, along with Beckett and Matsuzaka...well, I just don't want to be looked at the way the Yankees are.

Unless the Twins are using our deal as a pushing point to get more from other clubs, or we are trying to block the deal to the Yankees, I am not sure if I see the bright side of this.

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To be honest,it would be "foolish" of Epstein not to ask what the Twins want for the premium Left Handed Pitcher in the game.At 29 he is in his peak years & has at least 3 to 6 years at this plateau barring a major injury or a regression.

If they (the Sox) can get him WITHOUT give up a major piece,& it appears that the Twins want Coco (who is now 4th outfielder in Fenway) plus Bowden (who figures to be a #3) & Lowrie (Pedrioa clone IMHO) then getting him not only strengthens the Sox but also weakens 2 rival AL teams (both the Twins & indirectly the Yankees,who have no bona-fida ACE as of today).

It does not hurt either to push up the price the Yankees are willing to pay either,& from the Twins viewpoint getting more & more teams into the mix can only be beneficial.

All good points. Certainly - I wouldn't want him to just ignore the ace on the market while he is shopped around - but from a fan standpoint, with our payroll, I just don't want to start getting into that Yankee-range, being the poster boy for driving player prices up and becoming an 'Evil Empire'.

If Lowrie is a Pedrioa at Shortstop, maybe we could switch him for Lugo inthe deal, instead? :)

Are you saying Bowden is in the deal and Lester is out? That report just lists Crisp, Lester, Lowrie and potentially Masterson.

I guess, after Freddy Sanchez and Hanley Ramirez, and Cla Meredith and Gabbard and Arroyo...I am just sick of us sending our young talent off, so they can become stars somewhere else. When they stick around, like Pap and Pedroia and Youk, (and now Ellsbury) it gives me someone to root for and grow to really admire, unlike Drew or Manny, or other big-money stars that we bring in.

I just really hope that it is a move to slow the Yankees pursuit and drive up the price, they way they've screwed up our other pursuits over the years (Contreras, Mirabelli trade recently).