Jackie Robinson overrated

It was an institutionalized standard though. There were (and, unfortunately still are) plenty of places around the country that instituted segregation via custom or "rules" rather than giving them the full force and attention of codifying them into actual laws, especially prior to the 60's. Implying that it wasn't a law so therefore there wasn't actually segregation is revisionist history. That may not be, and probably isn't, what either one of you intends to convey. It is part of what comes across, however.

It was voluntary. As was the integration of baseball. I am a stickler for accurate and verbatim information which leads to comments such as the one I just made.

He was sought out by Rickey and brought in to baseball. It was a planned thing, as Rickey looked through tons of ball players and finally decided on Jackie's personality as the one that fit best with his intentions. He even had an agreement with Jackie that he would hold off "being himself" until he was somewhat accepted within the league.

Not to take anything away from what the guy did and what he accomplished, but those are the facts. If nothing else Rickey deserves just as much credit as Robinson when it comes to "breaking" segragation in baseball.

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Originally Posted by ohms_law

He was the first black player to break actual segregation...

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Where's the love for Bobby Estalella?:D ;)

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Not to take anything away from what the guy did and what he accomplished, but those are the facts. If nothing else Rickey deserves just as much credit as Robinson when it comes to "breaking" segragation in baseball.

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I agree 100%.

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Originally Posted by jcbarr

It was voluntary. As was the integration of baseball. I am a stickler for accurate and verbatim information which leads to comments such as the one I just made.

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I'm not sure what you mean by this. It kind of sounds like you're saying... well, I'm not sure what and I'd rather not speculate because this could go in a very bad direction from here.

All that I will say is that you should explain this further because it makes you look really bad. I'm sure, based on the tome that I think you're using, that you don't intend it to be so. That's why I'm saying something here, since now that all of this has been posted it'll be around for years and years for folks to come along and read...

Don't get me wrong things needed to change, and things still need to change even more before we get everything in this world on the right track. I just think that in a lot of instances involving matters such as this, people tend to place all the credit on one person, and that is, more often then not, not how it actually happened.

Baseball wouldn't be what it is today without Jackie, and sadly, it is starting to regress again. I'm glad that MLB is making efforts to get the African American community more interested and involved in the major leagues.

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Originally Posted by RAW

We all agree that he had a relatively short career (not of his choosing) with above average statistics.

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According to Wikipedia---After the 1956 season, Robinson was traded by the Dodgers to the New York Giants for Dick Littlefield and $30,000 cash. Rather than report to the archrival Giants, Robinson chose to retire at age 37.

Yep, he stated that he felt like an old used car being traded, and he especially did not want to play for the rival. That is what his widow stated on ESPN.

That's pretty common for players late in their careers, even today.