This game is way too easy.

I started a fictional universe as the Cincinnati Reds in 1901 on Mogul difficulty. My payroll was middling, but I managed to steer my team to a first-year World Series title. Well, I signed one of my guys to a long-term contract, but due to payroll I had to let some go. Good, I thought, this will at least make it interesting.

Well, my team won the World Series again the next year, lost Game 7 the year after, and once again in 1904 the Red Machine was the World Champion. How'd this happen? I thought Mogul was supposed to be 'hard'? Well how hard can it be when the computer offers you top hitting prospects (in a hitting-starved era, mind you, where the top home run hitter hits 9 on the season) for middling, overpriced long-term contracted players? Or when, on starting the 1904 season, a player rated 94/96 (and aged 26) sits on the free agent market, unclaimed until I signed him to a 5-year contract, $4.3 per? He turned out to put up very gaudy numbers, alongside my other hitting prospects that magically developed into power machines, and one guy, Ian DEATH, personifies his namesake against opposing pitching in his rookie season. Not to even mention my pitching. One guy I mistakenly signed for sentimental reasons to a 5-year deal, $6 million per after he led my team to its first World Series title, but he turned out to be a 73, so I traded him and some catcher for a 70/93 hitting prospect, I even made the opposing team pay ME money! And then the draft pumps out 90+ pitcher after 90+ pitcher, making it very easy for me to be the best team in baseball year after year after year.

So I don't really have much to play for anymore, when I know my team is always going to dominate because the AI is so dreadfully stupid (There were other 90+ rated hitters on the FA market, I didn't get them only because I would feel embarrassed having to sit them in favor of my 80/90+ prospects). And I don't see this as a luck thing, the AI is just plain bad.

Oh yeah, and I also set my draft predictability thing to -40%, and whatnot, I followed advice to make it more 'real'.

And also, how does arbitration work? It seems like every time I bring up a pitcher and he puts up gaudy numbers, the next year he gets arbitration eligible and costs $9 million to keep. Also, I see arbitration years being sooner than they should be. One of my hitters was arbitration eligible after the 1907 season, next I see it's down to 1906. What? I don't think that's how it works. Because then the Yankees would have to be paying Chien Ming Wang and Robinson Cano big bucks next year or the year after. And the Florida Marlins would never have been able to keep Miggy Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis this long.

Anyway, those are my complaints, and I'm surprised no one else has put them forward. These problems are pretty glaring, and really make me lose interest fast in what could be the most engrossing game ever made. Thanks for listening.

I see what you mean I'm in year 2020 on mine (started from 06') and made the playoffs every year and won the divison every year except for once. I'm guessing that will end though once my players start to retire since my batting order 1-4 are probably and average age of 37. But, I do have a nice young pitching staff so who knows.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aisengard

Well, my team won the World Series again the next year, lost Game 7 the year after, and once again in 1904 the Red Machine was the World Champion. How'd this happen?

---

You have a good team.

Quote:

---

I thought Mogul was supposed to be 'hard'?

---

From the Help files:

Quote:

---

The 'Difficulty' setting under 'Finances and Computer GMs' lets you change the difficulty level of the financial engine and computer artificial intelligence.

---

Quote:

---

Well how hard can it be when the computer offers you top hitting prospects (in a hitting-starved era, mind you, where the top home run hitter hits 9 on the season) for middling, overpriced long-term contracted players?

---

That's a problem the AI has with valuing prospects, and it's been brought up many times before. It will hopefully get a look at some time soon.

Quote:

---

Or when, on starting the 1904 season, a player rated 94/96 (and aged 26) sits on the free agent market, unclaimed until I signed him to a 5-year contract, $4.3 per?

---

Other teams may not have an opening at his position? The free agent market might've been really deep? There's plenty of things. Personally, I've never seen anything that extreme, so I'd chalk it up to a fluke.

Quote:

---

And then the draft pumps out 90+ pitcher after 90+ pitcher, making it very easy for me to be the best team in baseball year after year after year.

---

Adjust the Rookies.ini file. Lower the numbers there. Alternatively, lower Amateur Draft Talent in the league editor. I use -40%, and my Rookies.ini numbers are all in the 90s.

Quote:

---

So I don't really have much to play for anymore, when I know my team is always going to dominate because the AI is so dreadfully stupid

---

Then don't take advantage of the AI, it's as simple as that. Don't trade for prospects unless the trade looks fair to you. It's also worth mentioning - check your scouting rating, underneath the picture of a player in the scouting report. It might be something like +/-12, in which case, that 90 rated player might actually be 78, or anywhere from 78-100...

Quote:

---

(There were other 90+ rated hitters on the FA market, I didn't get them only because I would feel embarrassed having to sit them in favor of my 80/90+ prospects). And I don't see this as a luck thing, the AI is just plain bad.

---

That would be indicative of a very deep free agent market, and high talent around the league, causing players to be redundant.

Quote:

---

And also, how does arbitration work? It seems like every time I bring up a pitcher and he puts up gaudy numbers, the next year he gets arbitration eligible and costs $9 million to keep.

---

From the help files:

Quote:

---

ARBITRATION ELIGIBILITY

Players are eligible for arbitration if:

1) They have at least 3 years of Major League Service at the end of the season.

2) They have 2 years of Major League Service and their Major League Service ranks among the top 17% of all such "2-year players".

Note that the Baseball Mogul Scouting Report will display the year of a player's arbitration eligibility assuming that the player is continually earning Major League service time.

For example, a player drafted in January of 2007 and put on your AA team will be listed as "Earning $18,000 through 2009". If this player is on the Major League Roster for the next 3 years, he will become eligible for arbitration at the end of the 2009 season. However, if you keep in the minors, his arbitration date will be pushed back.

---

Quote:

---

Anyway, those are my complaints, and I'm surprised no one else has put them forward. These problems are pretty glaring, and really make me lose interest fast in what could be the most engrossing game ever made. Thanks for listening.

---

Other people have put them forward...

Many people have asked for an adjustment to how much money arbitration-eligible players ask for. I agree with you, it gets out of hand. There are many cases where it's just not realistic. As I mentioned earlier, as well, many users have asked for the AI to better value prospects.

I'm finding 2007 more difficult than the earlier incarnations. I think that may be because I'm always the Giants, and the NL West often has the Diamondbacks and Dodgers winning 100+ games each, so if I win 95 i am in third place... while in an earlier version i would be in the playoffs.

So I'm getting into debt more because i don't get into the playoffs as much.

Quote:

---

Adjust the Rookies.ini file. Lower the numbers there. Alternatively, lower Amateur Draft Talent in the league editor. I use -40%, and my Rookies.ini numbers are all in the 90s.

---

yea, i wouldn't recomend messing with rookies.ini since clad added amature draft talent to the league options. you sould probably stick to adjusting one or the other, not both.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ohms_law

yea, i wouldn't recomend messing with rookies.ini since clad added amature draft talent to the league options. you sould probably stick to adjusting one or the other, not both.

---

Rookies.ini is still useful if you want to adjust the distribution of talent. For example, if you want pitchers to really suck, lower the Pitcher number in Rookies.ini.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aisengard

I started a fictional universe as the Cincinnati Reds in 1901 on Mogul difficulty. My payroll was middling, but I managed to steer my team to a first-year World Series title. Well, I signed one of my guys to a long-term contract, but due to payroll I had to let some go. Good, I thought, this will at least make it interesting.

Well, my team won the World Series again the next year, lost Game 7 the year after, and once again in 1904 the Red Machine was the World Champion. How'd this happen? I thought Mogul was supposed to be 'hard'? Well how hard can it be when the computer offers you top hitting prospects (in a hitting-starved era, mind you, where the top home run hitter hits 9 on the season) for middling, overpriced long-term contracted players? Or when, on starting the 1904 season, a player rated 94/96 (and aged 26) sits on the free agent market, unclaimed until I signed him to a 5-year contract, $4.3 per? He turned out to put up very gaudy numbers, alongside my other hitting prospects that magically developed into power machines, and one guy, Ian DEATH, personifies his namesake against opposing pitching in his rookie season. Not to even mention my pitching. One guy I mistakenly signed for sentimental reasons to a 5-year deal, $6 million per after he led my team to its first World Series title, but he turned out to be a 73, so I traded him and some catcher for a 70/93 hitting prospect, I even made the opposing team pay ME money! And then the draft pumps out 90+ pitcher after 90+ pitcher, making it very easy for me to be the best team in baseball year after year after year.

So I don't really have much to play for anymore, when I know my team is always going to dominate because the AI is so dreadfully stupid (There were other 90+ rated hitters on the FA market, I didn't get them only because I would feel embarrassed having to sit them in favor of my 80/90+ prospects). And I don't see this as a luck thing, the AI is just plain bad.

Oh yeah, and I also set my draft predictability thing to -40%, and whatnot, I followed advice to make it more 'real'.

And also, how does arbitration work? It seems like every time I bring up a pitcher and he puts up gaudy numbers, the next year he gets arbitration eligible and costs $9 million to keep. Also, I see arbitration years being sooner than they should be. One of my hitters was arbitration eligible after the 1907 season, next I see it's down to 1906. What? I don't think that's how it works. Because then the Yankees would have to be paying Chien Ming Wang and Robinson Cano big bucks next year or the year after. And the Florida Marlins would never have been able to keep Miggy Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis this long.

Anyway, those are my complaints, and I'm surprised no one else has put them forward. These problems are pretty glaring, and really make me lose interest fast in what could be the most engrossing game ever made. Thanks for listening.

---

Markus?

Markus?

Markus?

(jolly good show!)

What?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aisengard

What?

---

they said Markus... ;)

Ok. I searched the Forums and apparently Markus is some ***** from "out of the park" baseball forums who hates Baseball Mogul.

I don't hate Baseball Mogul. In fact, I spend hours on it, fiddling with this and that, making trades, adjusting rookies. I love Baseball Mogul, it's great. I just wish there was more of a challenge outside of starting with the 2005 Royals.

I played this game back in 2002 and it was pretty good, and the 2007 version is amazing. And I'm sure the 2008 version will be even moreso. This game can suck your life away, it's that good. When the AI improves, and doesn't trade away top prospects, and actually drafts the 95 peak players in the 2nd round instead of me getting them in the last round, and there aren't so many **** pitchers in the draft, it will be incredible. And I've looked at the 2008 'requests' thread, about adjusting the minors to be more robust, and editing rosters, and being able to adjust how many hitters and pitchers, and not being forced to put your underdeveloped prospects on your bench because the draft only lasts six rounds and you don't have those AAAA players to round out your roster. The game can get better, I've thought of hundreds of things that will take a lot of time to list so I won't. This game has so much potential to be great, and it will always get better.

I was just wondering if there was a way to make it more challenging.

no, that's ok. I think that all of us understood that (I know that I did, anyway).

The problem though is that that was your first post. I think it was, overall, a good post. It's just that it set's a tone for everything is all. Noone here knows anything at all about you as a person yet, so how do we know that your not just trying to pick a fight?

Again though, I don't think that you are trying to pick a fight. You're certainly well spoken...
*shrug*

bad way to start off is all, I guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aisengard

I just wish there was more of a challenge outside of starting with the 2005 Royals.

---

Start with the Tigers in 2003:p

Or KC in 2006....

Or start with the current Reds and let me know how you do. I have been playing with them as my team, and after 6 years, I have made the playoffs only 2x, exiting both years in the 1st round. I have been trying to build a solid minor league, so I have $$ tied up there and also in scouting (not as much). Each year my budget decreases. I have had tickets at $18 and had 35,000 fans or at $24 and had 28,000 fans. Either way, it isn't enough to have a yearly payroll over $40 consistently unless you get a lot of cash in trades. I try to be realistic on that, as in real mlb, any cash transactions over $1million have to be approved by the commissioner's office...

The Royals are pretty tough also. :D

You could try the 2004 Kansas City Royals.
:p

Pittsburgh post Bonds /Bonilla

I accidentally released 1/3 of my starters my first season by x-ing out during the free agent signing period instead of negotiating with my players because I wanted to check my team situation. After releasing 8 or so guys, I realized what was happening. I came in last the next two years. You could try that? =)

I think we are all just wondering if Clay has put out the final patch or not. He really hasn't been specific if that patch was the last one or if there will be a few more fixes. My main issue is how easy the trade logic is.

The Last Official Patch

Try creating an expansion team in 2006, starting with an all-rookie team and only $15-20 million in startup money and a $75 million expense budget. Then play all your games in sim-only mode, i.e. no Manager or PBP participation. That should give you a challenge; it certainly has for me. I've tried this both in Manager mode and in sim-only and the results were much more favorable to my team in Manager mode, though things progress much slower time-wise that way, obviously.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by beerchaser

Try creating an expansion team in 2006, starting with an all-rookie team and only $15-20 million in startup money and a $75 million expense budget. Then play all your games in sim-only mode, i.e. no Manager or PBP participation. That should give you a challenge; it certainly has for me. I've tried this both in Manager mode and in sim-only and the results were much more favorable to my team in Manager mode, those things progress much slower time-wise that way, obviously.

---

Good suggestion...

I think we drove him away:
Last Activity: 10-21-2006 09:02 AM

*sigh*

Actually, I might try the expansion team thing. Sounds like a lot of fun.

But mainly I'm waiting for BM 2008, because then maybe a lot of things that take the competitiveness out of the game will be fixed (ie, trading, drafting, FA signing).

The game itself is amazing, I find myself becoming attached to players, regardless of their ratings. One guy led my team with 12 homeruns (where everyone else was hitting under ten) and a .300+ average with a rating of 77. I kept him in the cleanup spot all year and he performed, and he was kept on the team even when he started performing like his rating suggested. It's this kind of cool unpredictability that keeps me playing. Maybe I should join some online league or something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aisengard

Maybe I should join some online league or something.

---

Bobby where are you ?


Seriously try the AGML (look at Boomboom's viewer file & click on his sig )

It is slower than the average league but allows micro strategies & will allow you to build up the knowledge of the differences between BM & BMO without being completely over whelmed like in a 60 games/day league

Aisengard, you want a challenge? Try simming an expansion team, week by week, month by month, frantically balancing decent hitting and pitching after each session with these weak teams(e.g.'77 Blue Jays; '69 Expos; '98 Devil Rays) at Mogul level.

I would think that the ultimate challenge is to be completely realistic, using only the players that the original teams used in any given season, thus if you managed Toronto, you couldn't poach George Brett, say, from K.C. 'cos he never was a Jay, and although John Mayberry did play for the Jays, it wasn't until '78, so you couldn't have his bat in the line-up during your 1997 expansion year.

Similarly, if you ran the Expos, you would have to let Staub go after 1971, no matter how well he played for you(and even if you could afford him!), 'cos that's what happened in real life.

When all's said and done, though, if you want a challenge and fun, pick a weak, financially hard up team, give yourself a good start at FAN difficulty level, go to the "Play-by-Play" menu, and, by clicking on the PLAYER button do your own batting; pitching; baserunning; and (some) fielding. That first easy FAN season (playing a coupla games a day 'twill take you about 3 months) you will probably end up winning the World Series that year, with millions in the Club coffers.

Okay, the next season, step it up a notch, and play that same team (again with legit players) at the next difficulty level (Coach), and so on, thro the cyber years till it's winning the World Series at Mogul level.

There are many interesting ways to play this game...just browse thro these forums, and ideas will abound, your ennui evaporate...Good luck!

I've been playing Baseball Mogul for years now. I find the 2007 version to be the easiest by far. I play solitaire in Mogul mode and manage my team through each individual season.

There are so many holes to the current version that it isn't even a challenge to build a superpower. I can take any team from any year and within 5-6 years be a superpower averaging over 130 wins a season from that year forward.

Right now I have a team that I started in the 1950 season and have played it up to 1982. I recently completed a three year span where my team won 145 then 150 then 148 games. So my three year record was 443-43. One year I scored 1285 runs while allowing 413. I had a 54 game winning streak. I had 4 30+ game winning pitchers and hitters who drove in 197 and 194 runs. I haven't lost a playoff game (and I mean game, not series) in several years.

I built these super teams despite losing several superstars through expansion drafts. In one of those drafts the first 10 players taken were from my roster. I never missed a beat without them.

During this period I have never once cheated by altering a player in Commissioner mode. Or forcing any trades.

One way to guarantee that you build a superteam is to sell off your best players when they have 1 year left on their contracts, you can get 60-80 million for each. Then you use this money to buy all of the top draft picks. If you have budding superstars in the minors, then in the year before you call them up, just release them and then sign them as free agents. You can get them for around $5M/yr and you sign them to maximum 7 year contracts with 2 year team options.

You can never use up all of the money you get from selling players. My team currently has a positive balance of over $1B. I drop $30M a year on my minor leagues to develop those guys, as I have so much money to burn.

While I found that I could average around 120 wins a season with the 2004 and 2005 versions, I am now disappointed with any season with less than 138-140 wins.

For several seasons now I have purposefully scaled back on taking advantage of all of the game weaknesses. Allowing several great players contracts to expire. Never buying more than 2 rookies a season. But it is still way too easy.

This is using V9.45.

Try using more challenging teams cuz I am wondering what club you used and how much you altered it ..... also one thing that is bad about games that use real players names is that you know who is in all probability going to become good as in young players like when I traded for Cal Ripken and various other young stars that were only in the minors and were able to be had for not much. It isn't hard to understand that you can take advantage of things like this and do well but it doesn't mean you have to as you can do a pretty much to true season replay and don't make those moves as really isn't it about recreating (sometimes) what happened in the past or trying to better it with what that manager had ??? I say try managing a more challenging team say like the '69 Mets or the '80 Astros like I have and see if you can do the same thing. Uhmmm yes you can make it easy to manage those teams if you alter the rosters but if you just use the personnel they had well I think it will be a challenge .....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BaltimoreChop

I've been playing Baseball Mogul for years now. I find the 2007 version to be the easiest by far. I play solitaire in Mogul mode and manage my team through each individual season.

---

So what, in your opinion, would solve the problems that you're bringing up here?

From my perspective, it seems like your main complaint is that you can sell players to the AI for cash. I would counter that the AI never sells players, either to your team or any other AI team. The option is ther for you as a user, if you wish to use it, but it's not a part of the AI's game. Therefore, in my mind, it's a built in "cheat" system. If you want to be challenged, don't use "cheats". The AI is pretty tough if you play the same game that it's playing.

This is the same thing as playing a FPS or console game and using a "passcode" or a "trainer". Sure it's cheating, but it's cheating that you have permission to use if you want to. If you do use that sort of thing though, how can you complain that the game is too easy?

why do you guys like playing against the computer....

it really does suck...so I suggest trying BMO...want a challenge, play against 30 human owners...now that is tough :D

CLICK HERE TO TRY Baseball Mogul Online...

In the interest of full disclosure, you want Clay to stop developing BBM and only work on BBMO boomboom.

BaltimoreChop: Like ohms said, it seems that what you're doing, while available, is the reason you're winning so much . I play my games as realistically as possible. I don't trade for draft picks until they've played at least one year in the minors. I never buy players from other teams, and I never sell players to other teams. I only use cash to even out a trade if it's slightly uneven. Make your own artificial rules and it becomes more of a challenge.

Yes, it is obvious that this is what one has to do. They have to institute their own rules in order to make an incredibly easy game, harder. Although I didn't have to do nearly as much to make the 2003, 2004, or 2005 versions more challenging. The game has far more weaknesses in its strategy and AI than it did 3 years ago. This is true for trading, player development, budget management, and other areas.

For example the salary negotiations. It makes no sense when a player's contract expires and the little screen pops up and they ask for $17M/yr to re-sign. But if you release them and go into the Free Agent screen, then they only want $6M/yr to sign. So the whole "feature" with negotiating a contract while the player is still on your roster is a waste. I always release every expiring contract and opt out of every arbitration. Then I re-sign many of them off of the free agent list. However in real life, this usually works the opposite way.

Note that I stated I had already instituted rules to cut down on advantages, and even after losing many of my best prospects to expansion drafts, it was still childsplay to dominate the game. I guess I have to keep instituting more and more self-imposed rules to make the game a challenge.

The 2007 version feels like there has been a lot of effort to add stuff into the game, but at the expense of weakening the underlying framework. I've reinstalled the 2004 game and play it sometimes because it poses more of a challenge to build a dynasty and has more year-to-year fluctuation in the players production.

Why not play in human leagues? I don't have the consistent time to keep up with them. My time comes in spurts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BaltimoreChop

Yes, it is obvious that this is what one has to do. They have to institute their own rules in order to make an incredibly easy game, harder.

---

If you play it realistically, it's not incredibly easy.

Quote:

---

For example the salary negotiations. It makes no sense when a player's contract expires and the little screen pops up and they ask for $17M/yr to re-sign. But if you release them and go into the Free Agent screen, then they only want $6M/yr to sign. So the whole "feature" with negotiating a contract while the player is still on your roster is a waste. I always release every expiring contract and opt out of every arbitration. Then I re-sign many of them off of the free agent list. However in real life, this usually works the opposite way.

---

I've never seen such an extreme example. However, this might be due to the fact that with personalities, the player really doesn't want to play for your team, but since having players outright refuse hasn't been implemented yet, they ask for ridiculous amounts. The amount listed on the free agent dialog is also different then the amount a player will ask for when you open up negotiations from there. Players ask for different amounts rfom different teams.

Quote:

---

Note that I stated I had already instituted rules to cut down on advantages, and even after losing many of my best prospects to expansion drafts, it was still childsplay to dominate the game. I guess I have to keep instituting more and more self-imposed rules to make the game a challenge.

---

It's not like only trading players for players is a rule that requires time and effort...Just think realistically.

Quote:

---

During this period I have never once cheated by altering a player in Commissioner mode. Or forcing any trades.

One way to guarantee that you build a superteam is to sell off your best players when they have 1 year left on their contracts, you can get 60-80 million for each. Then you use this money to buy all of the top draft picks.

---

That's the thing: you're looking at some of the options the game gives you as "cheating," while using another one that has essentially the same effect: it gives you a big advantage over the AI. To me, using that last trick is just as much "cheating" as the first things you mentioned. Makes no difference to me whether it's something you have to go into Commissioner Mode to do or not, to me it's gaming the AI... when the AI's my competition that's not, to me, a challenging approach.

I also give myself some restrictions that the AI doesn't have, which both make the game's challenges more realistic to me and shift a little advantage to the AI (which needs it). I can't just shuttle players between the minors and my team repeatedly; I keep track of their "options." Or put them through waivers: I've worked out an approach to simulating that. If one of my veteran players is injured, I either have to keep him on the 25-man roster until he can play again or put him on the DL -- if I do that, he has to stay there at least 14 days. In the playoffs, I create a roster at the beginning of each series and can not change it. If a player gets injured, I have to finish the series without replacing him.

Basically I want to give myself management challenges that come as close to those in real life as possible (and I'm patiently hoping to see realistic roster rules implemented in the game at some point). That the AI doesn't have all of the same challenges makes the game a little tougher, and that's a bonus.

I'd also like to point out that you need not really do anything extra, such as tracking players "options", etc... You can use simple and easy house rules that effectively limit your power over the AI.

• You cannot initiate trades that involve cash.
• You cannot sign Free Agents on day 1 that Free Agent Signings open up.

Those two rules effectively place you on exactly the same rules as the AI. The AI cannot make trades where one party or the other only receives cash (and note that those sorts of trades are generally "outlawed" in MLB anyway). Additionally, we as users are given the benefit of first right to negotiate with players. If you negotiate a contract with a player currently, the AI has no chance at all of out bidding you. Therefore, limiting yourself to say that you cannot sign a player until the day after Free Agent signings open up (note that you can use F12 to advance one day rather than advancing all the way to the Amature Draft) puts you exactly even with the AI in terms of Free Agent signings.

I will say that I strongly agree the Free Agent system does need work. The instant signings system is fundamentally flawed, but that need not ruin your whole experience with the game. You can effectively work around the problem of instant signings.
The Cash in trades issue is different though. That should not be removed in my opinion, simply due to the fact that it's completely optional whether or not you utilise it.
The AI is largely improved over the AI in Mogul 2004, for many reasons. There has been several specific issues that have been fixed, and it's behavior in regards to how, when, and where to play players on the roster have been addressed. I'm not saying that the AI shouldn't be improved further, but to say that it's completly worthless when you are able to cut it's legs out from under it isn't very fair.