I agree with Pet. It wouldn't have made all that much difference if Babe Ruth had played against black players. He was just so far ahead of where everyone else was that there's just no comparison to this day.
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I agree with Pet. It wouldn't have made all that much difference if Babe Ruth had played against black players. He was just so far ahead of where everyone else was that there's just no comparison to this day.
imagine what he would have been had he taken care of his body!!!
I know what you mean. He was just one big guy when he was younger. Not fat at all. Too bad most of his photos and newsreel footage are from later on in his career.
Teddy Ballgame's the best player ever, because of everything he put up with due to the media, going to war for our country, and still putting up amazing numbers.
I agree on those facts. The difference is that Ruth was also a dominant pitcher before his hitting career. Based solely on baseball and nothing else, I think Babe is it. Teddy ballgame was John Wayne but he was a real life John Wayne
Well I think Ted Williams is the greatest of all time. Besides WWII and the Korean (sp) War who knows what stats he would have. I think he would have passed ruth in homeruns and Cobb in hits. Truth is we will never know but that is my thought
i think he would have broken his leg and never played past '43.
see how well speculating works? :D
Well thats a lot different. If he didnt miss time due to WWII its impossible to think he wouldn't have at least 1 hit more than he does now. I don't think he would have missed every game. But you do have a point and he is still the best ball player of all time.
OuchQuote:
Originally Posted by disposablehero
I speculate that if I had played Baseball I would have been the GREATEST!!! (bat boy that is) This is why Baseball is the greatest sport.
I did vote for Hank Aaron from that list because he was a classy ballplayer on and off the field.
Of course there are dozens of others that could be considered the "best" ever. This debate could easily rage on until we die.
But one thing we should all agree on......Ty Cobb was the meanest!!
The Sultan
... also depends on how you define "Greatest". If you're going to include guys that were dominant for just a few years, I think you need to add Pedro Martinez and probably Sandy Koufax.
A-Rod may not be worth $25 million, but if I was going to pay $50 million for any TWO seasons, it would probably be the the 1999-2000 version of Pedro.
He is my daddy.
It doesn't hurt that I still remember him pitching 6 no-hit relief innings in game 5 of the 1999 ALDS. That was epic.
Of course my Dad (the real one, not Petey) was born in Brooklyn -- so he'd probably vote for Koufax.
The 1968-9 version of Bob Gibson wasn't too shabby either.
Greg Maddux in '94-'95 was pretty impressive too
Post of the year right there!!! That was smart as all ****!! Great post :DQuote:
Originally Posted by disposablehero
P.S. +1000 for Ruth
I think most knowledgeble baseball fans will pick Ruth as the greatets player of all time (unless they have an axe to grind), so the real question is, "Who's second best?". I'd vote for Honus Wagner as second best, but I think you can also make decent arguments for at least a dozen other guys.
BTW, I don't intend this to be an attack on him, but if Ruth in his prime today, I suspect that he would be a crackhead, or at least a pothead. Remember, he drank a lot, and alcohol was as illegal during most of his career as cocaine is today. He might still hit 700+ HRs anyway.
On Crack he'd probably hit 700 but he'd do it in 10 years and then his head would explode!Quote:
Originally Posted by dps
I just thought of an unorthodox vote. Brad Radke.
This guy has been pitching through a torn labrum and a shoulder stress fracture. That is truely giving it up for his team.
I think Rogers Hornsby is the best player of all time.He hit over 400 three times in his career.He had a 756 slug. avg in 1925 with 39hrs and 143rbi. He hit 424 in 1924.All of this from a second baseman.why wasnt he on your list?
Actually, Ty Cobb wouldn't have stood out as a thug if he'd played in the 1890's; a lot of the things he did had been viewed more-or-less as just "part of the game" not that long before his time.Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballSultan
Not only Babe Ruth hit many home runs to end the dead ball era, but he revolutionized the baseball swing itself. If you compare some of the dead ball era hitters and Babe Ruth swing, they are really different in some aspects
Well it was up there in the first page for some reason
Now I see it, I have no idea why I posted here
Someone resurrected the thread by voting on the poll...
:(
Hmmm...left off the poll and deserve to be in the conversation...
Honus Wagner--easily the best shortstop of all time (and will maintain that status since A-Rod switched positions), an incredible hitter for average, a great defender in a poor defensive era, and a stellar ambassador for the game.
Nolan Ryan--yeah, not a great won-loss record, but easily the most dominant pitcher of the live-ball era. And his winning percentage is partly due to the fact that he played on wretched teams nearly his whole career. And 7 no-hitters! 7!!
Satchel Paige--the mere fact that he won the ROY at age 42 should stand out, and pitched into his 50's. Plus, had he been allowed in the majors in his prime, he would have won more games than Cy Young and struck out more hitters than Walter Johnson.
Josh Gibson--see above regarding Negro League players. Bonds might have had no shot at the record, steroids or not, had Gibson played his whole career in the bigs.
Barry Bonds--reprobate, steroid junkie, he of the enormous expanding cranium was still one of the great players of his generation before he juiced up. 40/40, a couple MVP's in Pittsburgh, and his '93 season was a phenomenal pre-steroid performance.
Roger Clemens--see above about Bonds and add alleged child molester to the list. Still, aside from the juice, not antics that would have even attracted notice in the early years of the game. 354 wins, 7 Cy Youngs, and the last pitcher to win an MVP. Pretty good, juice or not.
Edgar Martinez--controversial, but no player in recent memory has defined a position and role on a team the way he did with the DH slot. Perhaps Gossage and Eckersley as closers, but certainly no position player. With Edgar, DH ceased being a career extender for overweight, out of shape one-time stars who could no longer play the field, and became a regular, if still hot-button, position on the team.
Active players who should be on the list once they retire:
Greg Maddux/Tom Glavine--I can't help but link the two. The greatest right-handed and left-handed pitchers of their era, save only Clemens, and not a hint of an allegation that they did it the wrong way. Plus, two of the best hitting pitchers of their era. Strike against Glavine for the '94 strike, but judging on-field performance, these two are in a league of their own.
Randy Johnson--best left-handed power pitcher ever, and in the conversation with Carlton and Glavine as the best modern southpaw. Plus one of the most intimidating players in the game.
Ichiro--we haven't seen anything like him since Pete Rose in his prime, and we may never see anything like him again. Had he debuted in America five years earlier than he did, he'd be a shoo-in for the hits record. If anyone in the present era can hit .400, its him.
A-Rod--I hate to say it, as he is the antithesis of all I believe to be good in sports. He's a poor sport, a bad loser, a dirty player, may have juiced...and still you can't argue with the on-field results. Perhaps he should be left off postseason rosters, but he'll end up owning half the record book when he's done.
As for the all time greatest, by position:
1B: Lou Gehrig, probably. Could've had astronomical numbers if his career hadn't been cut short.
2B: Tough one. I could put Rose here, he broke in at second.
3B: Brooks Robinson. Defensively, the best ever to man the hot corner, and no slouch at the plate, either.
SS: Wagner, and unthreatened with A-Rod moving to third.
OF: Ruth, Williams, DiMaggio. Wow, what an outfield that would be. Wow.
C: I want to say Josh Gibson, but we just will never know. That being said, Johnny Bench is a good candidate.
SP: really hard. Righties, I'd take Walter Johnson, Nolan Ryan, Bob Feller, and Dizzy Dean...and possibly Clemens. Lefties...Koufax, Carlton, Randy Johnson (even still active), and maybe Lefty Grove. Honorable mention to Christy Mathewson and Satchel Paige.
RP: Gossage, Eckersley, Hoffman, Rivera, and Lee Smith. How's that for a bullpen lineup.
What was i thinking voting for Walter Johnson?????
Most intimidating, maybe. Most dominant? If we're speaking in terms of all-around pitching skill and ability to keep runs off the board, no way.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckwillard
Randy Johnson > Tom Glavine, easily.Quote:
Greg Maddux/Tom Glavine--I can't help but link the two. The greatest right-handed and left-handed pitchers of their era, save only Clemens
Roger Hornsby, Joe Morgan, Eddie Collins.Quote:
2B: Tough one. I could put Rose here, he broke in at second.
Mike Schmidt.Quote:
3B: Brooks Robinson. Defensively, the best ever to man the hot corner, and no slouch at the plate, either.
Schmidt, Brett, Eddie Mathews...all better than Robinson at 3'rd.
Mays, Cobb, Mantle...all better than Dimaggio in CF.
SP.... Clemens, Maddux, Seaver, Grove.....all MUCH better than Feller, Ryan or Dean. For that matter, Cy Young was better, Pete Alexander,and Warren Spahn.
I dont think I've ever seen a modern day "greatest" list that included Dizzy Dean, Bob Feller, or Brooks Robinson. Of course, its his list, so I suppose he can put anyone he wants on there.