Re: Greatest Baseball Player Ever
I actually think A-Rod is overrated. He is a very good player but he is not on the level of ruth or aaron. The problem is that everyone judges a player by the amount of HR he hits. I would rather have a guy like ichiro on my team. he is always on base and causes such havoc it make the players who hit behind him better. A-Rod doesnt make the players around him better.
BTW did you guys know that joe mauer for the twins was tossed out of tball when he was 4 because he hit the ball to hard. That's nuts.
Re: Greatest Baseball Player Ever
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet
If A-Rod could hit in the clutch he would have to be considered to be 1 of the best all time but he padds his stats agains the poor teams like the royals and tampa bay.
A-Rod CAN hit in the clutch. He's hitting over .300 this year with RISP, and it's even higher with RISP and two outs.
I don't get all this criticism that he cant hit in the clutch. Just because he's choked at some clutch moments doesn't maen he's not a good player, or that he shouldnt be considered one of the best. He's an excellent player, who will one day be named as one of the greatest in baseball. He's only 30 and has over 450 home runs. And in 7 of the last 8 seasons, he's hit over 40. If he stays healthy and keeps doing th esame thing, he'll pass Aaron.
Re: Greatest Baseball Player Ever
is any man worth 25 million??? For that price tag he should be able to carry any team on his back thru the playoffs. He couldnt even get the rangers anywhere close to the playoffs. When he left the mariners the next year they won 116 games and when he left the Rangers they came close to making the playoffs the first year he was gone. He is overrated and will never be the player or person that ruth was. Ruth might have been a drunk and a courter of women he still was an amazing person. Even Ty Cobb built schools and a hospital. When was the last time you saw that aside from pedro building churches in the DR???
Re: Greatest Baseball Player Ever
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet
is any man worth 25 million??? For that price tag he should be able to carry any team on his back thru the playoffs. He couldnt even get the rangers anywhere close to the playoffs. When he left the mariners the next year they won 116 games and when he left the Rangers they came close to making the playoffs the first year he was gone. He is overrated and will never be the player or person that ruth was. Ruth might have been a drunk and a courter of women he still was an amazing person. Even Ty Cobb built schools and a hospital. When was the last time you saw that aside from pedro building churches in the DR???
Nobody will be what ruth is...but saying that A-rod is overated? he is the best player in the game right now....he won a gold glove at 3b and ss in his career....not only does a-rod hit for homeruns, average, walks, doubles and he has speed as well...
I would take a-rod over Ichiro any day of the week. And this is coming from an Ichiro Fan.
In 2000, Seattle was successful, and in 2001 they did win more games mostly due to everybody having a career year...wouldnt you love to have Brett Boone, Ichiro, having Aaron Sele having a monster year, having Mike Cameron hitting .270, or how bout Edgar...Freddy winning the ERA title....
(If) A-rod was on the 2001 team, that team could have won probably the world series....possibly more games....9-11 did mess up the team, they didnt play for a week...that could have been part of it too....
Baseball isnt basketball, one player can not change the outcome, it takes a team...those ranger teams had no pitching...did you expect A-rod to pitch also??
Clutch doesnt exist, show me some statistics saying that it does exist...please show me.
About the value of A-rod contract, is stupidly high. But I am not the person who can value a player in montary terms. That is the GM's- agents job. A-rod is a great player and will only help a team. He is possibly under-rated....
BTW: I hate a-rod with a passion....i hate him, I hate him, I hate him....he left seattle, and seattle had a decent offer on the table....I was expecting a hometown discount...at the same time, I wouldnt turn down 252million.
Re: Greatest Baseball Player Ever
Quote:
Originally Posted by disposablehero
id venture to say that baseball players ARE NOT the best athletes in the US today, as they definitely were in the early 1900's.
Unfortunately Ruth wasn't playing against the best U.S. athletes either. Many of them were in the Negro Leagues.
I think Stephen Jay Gould made a pretty convincing argument that the competition has gotten stronger throughout the century, even with expansion and the rise of other sports. Thats why there aren't any more .400 hitters. You either have to accept that Ruth and Cobb and Young and Johnson were all mutant freaks of the likes we'll never see again. Or you have to assume that they had EQUAL genetic gifts to Bonds, Griffey, Pedro and Clemens -- but played in a less competitive environment. I think the latter makes more sense. It's why we have 'Talent' modifiers in the stats files for each year in Baseball Mogul. To tell the game to create more talent variation in 1927 than in 1997.
Clay
Re: Greatest Baseball Player Ever
Hmmm, when all else fails, I look to my t-shirts...
My 'The BIG DOGS of Baseball' shirt says:
- Babe Ruth - All-Time Greatest Slugger
- Mickey Mantle - Greatest American League Player of All-Time
- Willie Mays - Greatest National League Player of All-Time
- Joe DiMaggio - Mr. Consistency
- Ted Williams - All-Time Best Hitter
I'm all confused now, my t-shirt didn't answer the question. :(
Re: Greatest Baseball Player Ever
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet
is any man worth 25 million??? For that price tag he should be able to carry any team on his back thru the playoffs. He couldnt even get the rangers anywhere close to the playoffs. When he left the mariners the next year they won 116 games and when he left the Rangers they came close to making the playoffs the first year he was gone. He is overrated and will never be the player or person that ruth was. Ruth might have been a drunk and a courter of women he still was an amazing person. Even Ty Cobb built schools and a hospital. When was the last time you saw that aside from pedro building churches in the DR???
For one, I never said he was worth 25 million. I said I simply don't understand the "bad in the clutch" criticism. I don't think he's worth 25 million - but if any player currently playing is worth that much, it's either him or Pujols.
Boomboom summed it up really nicely.
Re: Greatest Baseball Player Ever
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clay Dreslough
Unfortunately Ruth wasn't playing against the best U.S. athletes either. Many of them were in the Negro Leagues.
ahh, but did he face more of them on whole, than today's MLBers?
i think its so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clay Dreslough
I think Stephen Jay Gould made a pretty convincing argument that the competition has gotten stronger throughout the century, even with expansion and the rise of other sports. Thats why there aren't any more .400 hitters. You either have to accept that Ruth and Cobb and Young and Johnson were all mutant freaks of the likes we'll never see again. Or you have to assume that they had EQUAL genetic gifts to Bonds, Griffey, Pedro and Clemens -- but played in a less competitive environment. I think the latter makes more sense. It's why we have 'Talent' modifiers in the stats files for each year in Baseball Mogul. To tell the game to create more talent variation in 1927 than in 1997.
Clay
i too tend to lean in the direction of better competition now, but there's just no way know. thats all my point was. its not as clear cut as a statement that the sky is blue. if it was, we wouldnt be having a debate and statheads wouldnt study it.
Re: Greatest Baseball Player Ever
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
For one, I never said he was worth 25 million. I said I simply don't understand the "bad in the clutch" criticism. I don't think he's worth 25 million - but if any player currently playing is worth that much, it's either him or Pujols.
I would take pujols over him any day. I just think that pujols will be a better player than A-Rod will ever be. I should have put him in the list. I will give A-Rod credit tho... he is consistant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirKodiak
Hmmm, when all else fails, I look to my t-shirts...
My '
The BIG DOGS of Baseball' shirt says:
- Babe Ruth - All-Time Greatest Slugger
- Mickey Mantle - Greatest American League Player of All-Time
- Willie Mays - Greatest National League Player of All-Time
- Joe DiMaggio - Mr. Consistency
- Ted William - All-Time Best Hitter
I think SirKodiak might have summed it up the best. his shirt is tops in my book, altho i might put my consistancy as williams over dimaggio. That is a close 1 tho it really could go either way. You do have to give Ruth the greatest All Time Slugger but i dont think he was the greates hitter all time. That has to go to Cobb and it could actually go with Williams. Greatest pitcher I think has to go with Johnson. My consistancy with pitching absolutly without question goes to Cy tho. I mean he averaged 35 starts a game which the #1 pitcher averages 30-34 starts a game now and his yearly average was like 18 or 19 wins a year. His BA was .210 too which isnt too shabby for a pitcher not named Ruth!!!
Re: Greatest Baseball Player Ever
BTW who voted for Johnson???
Re: Greatest Baseball Player Ever
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomboom
some other players you did leave out.
Ken Griffey Junior (10 straight gold gloves plus his bat..)
Pete Rose (charlie hussle, 4256)
Barry Bonds (718 and counting, hgh, steriods, just look at the numbers)
Micky Mantle (best switch hitter of all time)
Joe Diamaggio (cut his career short, but was good when he ended it)
Joe Dimaggio is quite possibly the most overrated player in baseball history. He ended his career at the age of 36 and he wasn't good when he ended it. He hit just .268 with 12 homers that year and had no range in center. An opposing teams scouting report on the Yankees was published in his final year and it said about Dimaggio...."Run on him all day. No range and no arm" Dimaggio was so embarrassed he retired. Dimaggio was also the first player to hold out for more money even though he had signed contract. After he retired he insisted to always be announced last at any old timers day and insisted that he be referred to as baseball's greatest living player. On top of that he beat the **** out of Marilyn Monroe. Yankee fans love to romanticize him as this graceful and classy Yankee. Truth is he was an absolute jerk to everybody. Treated a young Mickey Mantle like **** and wasnt even close to his own brother Dom. Look at his career numbers....nothing great at least if you talk about him in the same conversation of Ruth, Cobb, Mays, Aaron etc. Dont believe the Dimaggio hype. Overrated even by Yankee standards. He makes Derek Jeter and Bernie Williams seem underrated and that is hard to do.
Re: Greatest Baseball Player Ever
Dimaggio's career numbers are amazing considering he only played 13 years. 2200 hits, .325 average, 350+ home runs..
Not to mention there was not one year where he didnt amke the all star game.
Re: Greatest Baseball Player Ever
Ripken made the all star game his last year and he didn't deserve it. You cant go by all star games because of that and the fact that Thome wont make it this year and DEFINATLY should be there!!!
Re: Greatest Baseball Player Ever
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomboom
Nobody will be what ruth is...but saying that A-rod is overated? he is the best player in the game right now....he won a gold glove at 3b and ss in his career....not only does a-rod hit for homeruns, average, walks, doubles and he has speed as well...
I would take a-rod over Ichiro any day of the week. And this is coming from an Ichiro Fan.
In 2000, Seattle was successful, and in 2001 they did win more games mostly due to everybody having a career year...wouldnt you love to have Brett Boone, Ichiro, having Aaron Sele having a monster year, having Mike Cameron hitting .270, or how bout Edgar...Freddy winning the ERA title....
(If) A-rod was on the 2001 team, that team could have won probably the world series....possibly more games....9-11 did mess up the team, they didnt play for a week...that could have been part of it too....
Baseball isnt basketball, one player can not change the outcome, it takes a team...those ranger teams had no pitching...did you expect A-rod to pitch also??
Clutch doesnt exist, show me some statistics saying that it does exist...please show me.
About the value of A-rod contract, is stupidly high. But I am not the person who can value a player in montary terms. That is the GM's- agents job. A-rod is a great player and will only help a team. He is possibly under-rated....
BTW: I hate a-rod with a passion....i hate him, I hate him, I hate him....he left seattle, and seattle had a decent offer on the table....I was expecting a hometown discount...at the same time, I wouldnt turn down 252million.
Yeah IF Arod was on the 2001 team....but AROD left and went to the Rangers...not because of the money but because he wanted to play for a winning team. He left the Mariners who were in the playoffs his last two years with a great team coming back and went to the Rangers...not because of the money but because he wanted to play for a winner. This is why I think AROD is cursed and I think it is hilarious. He should of went to the Mets but he wanted his own office in Shea Stadium for his PR staff. He gets what he deserves. He may hit 1000 homeruns but if he finishes his career with the Yankees and remains ringless he will be viewed at as a joke. Now odds are with the Yankees payroll AROD should be able to walk into a ring by accident at some point in his career....but if he doesnt? If he continuees to fold like a cheap suit come playoff time? Wow, he could be the worst player ever to hit 900 Homeruns lol
Re: Greatest Baseball Player Ever
Quote:
Originally Posted by fenwaymike
Joe Dimaggio is quite possibly the most overrated player in baseball history. He ended his career at the age of 36 and he wasn't good when he ended it. He hit just .268 with 12 homers that year and had no range in center. An opposing teams scouting report on the Yankees was published in his final year and it said about Dimaggio...."Run on him all day. No range and no arm" Dimaggio was so embarrassed he retired. Dimaggio was also the first player to hold out for more money even though he had signed contract. After he retired he insisted to always be announced last at any old timers day and insisted that he be referred to as baseball's greatest living player. On top of that he beat the **** out of Marilyn Monroe. Yankee fans love to romanticize him as this graceful and classy Yankee. Truth is he was an absolute jerk to everybody. Treated a young Mickey Mantle like **** and wasnt even close to his own brother Dom. Look at his career numbers....nothing great at least if you talk about him in the same conversation of Ruth, Cobb, Mays, Aaron etc. Dont believe the Dimaggio hype. Overrated even by Yankee standards. He makes Derek Jeter and Bernie Williams seem underrated and that is hard to do.
thanks for the perfect analysis of his baseball career, FENWAYMIKE :rolleyes:
