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acetoolguy
05-16-2009, 03:50 PM
My great grand parents were born In Italy, my grand parents born there, moved here, my parents born here and I was born here.

I think that makes me a Native American. I am certainly not Italian, never set foot in Italy.

Does a Native American have to trace their past to crossing a land bridge from Siberia? So they are Asian?

Will Americans ever reach the point where we refer to ourselves as Americans and not as where we think out roots lay? We will become a stronger country when we do I think. The hyphenated American is a great danger to our future ( I edited it from "greatest danger").
So I have decided from now on when asked "What are you?" or some version of that, to answer American. And answer the same to the inevitable follow-up question, "No, what Nationality?

I was born here, that makes me a Native American Dammit......a NAD.

kenny1234
05-16-2009, 04:09 PM
Your nationality is American, you may be able to claim your ethnicity is American. Native American is usually used as a concept that defines an ethnic group - it has essentially nothing to do with nationality. If you want to call yourself a native American (uncapitalized), that is true by some definitions of the terms "native" and "American". By capitalizing Native, you would be referring to a specific group, rather than using the dictionary definition of "native".

And I realize that you probably know this, and are ranting about some perceived slight somewhere, so you can return to the original premise of the thread.

Slingshot
05-16-2009, 04:19 PM
What's wrong with celebrating your heritage? America is a country made up of people with different ethnic backgrounds from all over world, and maybe that is what makes it so great.

ohms_law
05-16-2009, 04:30 PM
True but, we do have our own distinct culture now. Like ace said in the original post, most of us living in North America are hardly Italian, French, German, Chinese, etc... any more.

You've gotta love sociology though, huh? Is there a more subjective scientific field?
:)

RedsoxRockies
05-16-2009, 04:31 PM
I am actually part "Native American", some of my ancestors are from the Natchez and Chicuamangua tribes of Lousiana. (Not sure on the spelling of the second one). We believe there may be some Seminole and Mayan in the family too... I am also very Italian and Irish, and have some Norwegian, German, Scottish, English, and Canadian in me.

ohms_law
05-16-2009, 04:40 PM
Pretty much everyone who's family has been here (in the US or Canada) for more then 3-4 generations is a mutt. You and I are as Italian, Irish, Norwegian, or anything else that you can think of, as we are Martians. Go, live overseas for a while, and you'll see what I mean.

TheNamelessPoet
05-16-2009, 04:41 PM
My answer to that question is always this

I am American, proud American... Flesh and blood American... My ancestors came here from other countries so that they may live in America because it was a country they believe in and wanted to be part of it. I am an American... And will be until the day I die.

Slingshot
05-16-2009, 04:42 PM
I am actually part "Native American", some of my ancestors are from the Natchez and Chicuamangua tribes of Lousiana. (Not sure on the spelling of the second one). We believe there may be some Seminole and Mayan in the family too... I am also very Italian and Irish, and have some Norwegian, German, Scottish, English, and Canadian in me.

Your mother got around, huh? :p

Slingshot
05-16-2009, 04:48 PM
My answer to that question is always this

I wouldn't say I'm proud to be [insert nationality]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3S_XL3JKgI

ohms_law
05-16-2009, 04:54 PM
:)

acetoolguy
05-16-2009, 06:58 PM
If your family is Caucasian from South Africa and they move to the US, are you African American?

ohms_law
05-16-2009, 07:11 PM
nah
"African American" is just the latest label for "African", "Negro", or "Black" peoples. It has just as much significance as any of those terms, as well.

I understand what you're getting at, and kenny does as well from what I can see. You're only fighting a name, though. The only meaning is that which we give it.

RedsoxRockies
05-16-2009, 07:53 PM
Pretty much everyone who's family has been here (in the US or Canada) for more then 3-4 generations is a mutt. You and I are as Italian, Irish, Norwegian, or anything else that you can think of, as we are Martians. Go, live overseas for a while, and you'll see what I mean.

I am just proud of my natural heritage

gRYFYN1
05-16-2009, 08:22 PM
You've gotta love sociology though, huh? Is there a more subjective scientific field?
:)

Psychology ?

kenny1234
05-16-2009, 08:36 PM
You've gotta love sociology though, huh? Is there a more subjective scientific field?
:)
Sorry, are you calliing sociology a scientific field? Even the people that I know in sociology wouldn't make that claim.

ohms_law
05-16-2009, 08:39 PM
I am just proud of my natural heritage
Here's what Slingshot, George Carlin, and I are getting at though. What do you have to be proud of?

Psychology ?
lol
not really, since (modern) psychology has concrete observations to back it up. You can even conduct experiments in psychology...

acetoolguy
05-16-2009, 08:56 PM
Its funny what started this little mini rant for me though. It was a discussion on Constitutional amendments.
Growing up I was a supporter of the Civil & Equal Rights Amends. I think that my generation did not improve race relations in a way that carried forward is its greatest failure. At some point though I became uncomfortable with the whole concept of changing the Constitution for a group of people but was unsure why. I eventually figured out my issue with it but when I try and explain it I get attached as a racist/sexiest/homophobic xenophobe because nobody listens past the part where I say I am not in favor if an amendment to grant ________, (fill in the blank) equal rights. We all already have equal rights the way its written now, enforce it that way.
Let me just pick a group to make my point.
If we put a Constitutional Amendment granting gays the same rights as the majority, which I say they already have, then they are moving AWAY from where they want to be. If the law singles them out as a separate group from society then they will be treated as a separate group. I guess to sum up, if you want to be considered part of the 'mainstream' of a society you can't then ask for laws that single your group out. Still not satisfied with that explanation but I gotta run so it will have to do for now.

RedsoxRockies
05-16-2009, 09:00 PM
Here's what Slingshot, George Carlin, and I are getting at though. What do you have to be proud of?

The sports, the food, the culture, the geography, the fact that they are better then America...

filihok
05-16-2009, 09:04 PM
If we put a Constitutional Amendment granting gays the same rights as the majority, which I say they already have, then they are moving AWAY from where they want to be. If the law singles them out as a separate group from society then they will be treated as a separate group. I guess to sum up, if you want to be considered part of the 'mainstream' of a society you can't then ask for laws that single your group out. Still not satisfied with that explanation but I gotta run so it will have to do for now.

Agreed.

I'm all for equal rights. But quite against 'hate' laws, like the Matthew Shepherd Act.

One thing ACT, which you must know, gays DO NOT have the same equal rights as the majority. Which is nothing short of a total travesty and failure of America

metsguy234
05-16-2009, 09:50 PM
The sports, the food, the culture, the geography, the fact that they are better then America...

I highly doubt they are better than America

RedsoxRockies
05-16-2009, 09:56 PM
I highly doubt they are better than America

Italian Food>American

You can't argue that one. And it is all opinion based.

metsguy234
05-16-2009, 09:58 PM
Italian Food>American

You can't argue that one. And it is all opinion based.

I can argue that one. I've eaten so much Italian food that I've gotten absolutely sick of it.

RedsoxRockies
05-16-2009, 10:00 PM
I can argue that one. I've eaten so much Italian food that I've gotten absolutely sick of it.

Blasphemy! :eek:

TheNamelessPoet
05-16-2009, 10:39 PM
I am a firm NON believer in Afermative action as I have seen this on multiple occasions have a NEGATIVE effice on someone getting a job because they wee NOT a minority.

At one time this may have been needed but enough already.

RedsoxRockies
05-16-2009, 10:42 PM
I am a firm NON believer in Afermative action as I have seen this on multiple occasions have a NEGATIVE effice on someone getting a job because they wee NOT a minority.

At one time this may have been needed but enough already.

I agree that Affirmative action is awful.

metsguy234
05-16-2009, 10:53 PM
I am a firm NON believer in Afermative action as I have seen this on multiple occasions have a NEGATIVE effice on someone getting a job because they wee NOT a minority.

At one time this may have been needed but enough already.

Agreed. I think at this point we'd be totally fine with the basic laws in place (you can't not give someone a job because of their race, gender, religion, sexual orientation and you can't pay them less then you pay others doing the same job)

TheNamelessPoet
05-16-2009, 10:57 PM
its like he woke up one day and everything just clicked... all grown up and making sound comments at 14... our little MG has hit puberty lol

Agreed. I think at this point we'd be totally fine with the basic laws in place (you can't not give someone a job because of their race, gender, religion, sexual orientation and you can't pay them less then you pay others doing the same job)

Back on topic here... I Do think its ok to be proud of your natinality. I am not saying I am better than any other person or any other nationality... but I wouldnt want to live anywhere else... When going someplace else... I wouldn't HIDE where I was from...

That to me IS pride.

RedsoxRockies
05-16-2009, 11:01 PM
its like he woke up one day and everything just clicked... all grown up and making sound comments at 14... our little MG has hit puberty lol


Back on topic here... I Do think its ok to be proud of your natinality. I am not saying I am better than any other person or any other nationality... but I wouldnt want to live anywhere else... When going someplace else... I wouldn't HIDE where I was from...

That to me IS pride.

Not yet my friend. Ask HoustonGm about his AIM chat with him...

HoustonGM
05-17-2009, 12:03 AM
Italian Food>American

You can't argue that one. And it is all opinion based.
It's preference. To you, Italian food is better. To Metsguy, American food is better. :rolleyes:

Also, your original statement was:

he sports, the food, the culture, the geography, the fact that they are better then America...
"The fact that they are better than America" looks to be a separate item

RedsoxRockies
05-17-2009, 12:06 AM
It's preference. To you, Italian food is better. To Metsguy, American food is better. :rolleyes:
And I stated that was my opinion, not everyones.

Also, your original statement was:

"The fact that they are better than America" looks to be a separate item

What are you getting at? That it should not be in the list? I prefer the nations of my heritage, and I proud of their culture and such, which in my opinion is betetr then American culture, at least nowadays.

HoustonGM
05-17-2009, 12:14 AM
And I stated that was my opinion, not everyones.
And that it wasn't arguable...it obviously IS arguable, since people have different preferences. Maybe I'm nitpicking, but I think what you're looking for is "There's no right answer."


What are you getting at? That it should not be in the list? I prefer the nations of my heritage, and I proud of their culture and such, which in my opinion is betetr then American culture, at least nowadays.
That it didn't seem like you were saying "Their food is better than America" but rather "Their entire society is better than America."

RedsoxRockies
05-17-2009, 12:16 AM
And that it wasn't arguable...it obviously IS arguable, since people have different preferences. Maybe I'm nitpicking, but I think what you're looking for is "There's no right answer." Ok, sure, lets just leave it at that.



That it didn't seem like you were saying "Their food is better than America" but rather "Their entire society is better than America." Uh, yea, I was... Again, what exactly are you getting at?

Wassit3
05-17-2009, 12:19 AM
If your family is Caucasian from South Africa and they move to the US, are you African American?

according to Charlize Theron, yes

metsguy234
05-17-2009, 12:22 AM
Uh, yea, I was... Again, what exactly are you getting at?

You said that all those countries were better than America and that that wasn't arguable. That's what hes getting at.

HoustonGM
05-17-2009, 12:26 AM
Uh, yea, I was... Again, what exactly are you getting at?
In response to somebody saying "I highly doubt they're better than America" you said, "Italian Food>American" and I'm telling you that, based on how you wrote it, nobody would've thought that you were saying the food is better than American food. You listed "better than America" has an entirely separate item from "food". That's all.

RedsoxRockies
05-17-2009, 12:28 AM
In response to somebody saying "I highly doubt they're better than America" you said, "Italian Food>American" and I'm telling you that, based on how you wrote it, nobody would've thought that you were saying the food is better than American food. You listed "better than America" has an entirely separate item from "food". That's all.

Ah, ok. Yes, that is arguable.

free2131
05-17-2009, 03:56 AM
I think that me being American has no greater value than Tony Blair being British, or Vladimir Putin being Russian, or Horst Kohler being German.

We are all humans, and that's good enough for me.